1980 or 2000?

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gundjo

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Sep 12, 2010
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Mpls, MN USA
Hi all,

brand new to the forum and brand new to Tokai ownership. In fact I don't even yet have possession of my new passion (tomorrow, hopefully). In any case what I think I bought was a 1980 Love Rock LS 120 but if I understand things correctly there is little by way of marking this off from a 2000. The brief bits I've found here say that signs of aging and "fittings" are the only determinants. I'm not sure what is meant by fittings exactly (pick ups can be changed, no?) and am looking for some help. I'll post pics when I get the guitar but I thought to try and ease my agitated mind in the interim. Any thoughts?
 
Gundjo, without pics the only thing to say about the guitar is that if it has '120' impressed at the end of the fingerboard then it certainly is from 1980. And if it has either 'Reborn' or 'Reborn Old' (and not Love Rock) on the headstock it certainly is from 1980 too.
 
Jacco,

thanks for the reply. Its a Love Rock so the Reborn/Old demarcation isn't gonna help. As I understand it the Love Rocks don't have the fingerboard stamp either (that being fazed out with the the introduction of the new moniker) but I am new to all of this so any corrections are welcome. Just curious as to what one might actually see with pics and what is meant by fittings.
 
on flea bay (USA), auction ended Sept 5th. I suspect some of you saw it there but once again I'll post pics just as soon as it arrives.
 
It wasn't the one from California that ended on September the 6th was it? Although I'm looking at it from Australia so ebay gives the local time for me, which could have taken it over the date line.

If so, **** nice guitar by the looks, and definitely a genuine 1980 Love Rock! Good price too. :)
Not sure about some of the other claims made in the listing, but I doubt that matters too much with these guitars.
 
villager said:
if you have a link to the auction then we can put your mind at rest sooner..

True enough - a couple quick pictures would be enough to make the id :)
 
it was from California and ended late on the 5th so given Oz time it seems likely. I have no reason whatsoever to suspect anything remiss re: the seller (forthright, prompt etc...) so I hope I haven't given that impression. If I was better with things technological (let alone with diminished chords) I am sure I could link the info/pics from the sale. Short of some instruction, however, I will have to wait to post pics.
 
thanks everyone, that is the one. Maybe I am just unable to accept good fortune but frankly the price I paid is exactly what has made my mind wonder. Independent of my paranoia, however, I am curious as to what folks are seeing that make them (happily) so confident.
 
You've done very well for yourself there. It's a beautiful guitar at a difficult to believe price. You paid LS-80 money for an LS-120. Even has the earlier double ring tuners (if indeed they are Tokai tuners). The circuit board is there, pickups changed but at that price, who really cares. Condition is solid. Well done.
 
well it arrived and I couldn't be happier. The double ring tuners do say Tokai on the back (thanks for the tip Cali girl), no cracks/significant scratches or dents, and, most importantly, she plays and sounds simply fantastic. The figuring of the top is probably a little too subtle for some but I absolutely love it (it doesn't look like the official spokes guitar for NASCAR). She seems too old for ten but well nigh immaculate for thirty. I knew the pick ups were probably non original when I hit the bid button so no surprises there and personally I prefer the look of the covers anyway. They sound terrific. Thanks again for all the wisdom and support--good to be part of this nice thing y'all got going on here.
 
gundjo said:
...The figuring of the top is probably a little too subtle for some...

That's a good thing IMO, and it also probably means it isn't a veneer top, as many of the flamey ones were veneer topped, and the more subtle flame tops have more of the classic looks of the old 50s bursts.

There was no doubts about the guitar being a 1980 Love Rock (seller has genuine and good Tokais). Very happy to hear that it arrived safely! :D
 
Beautiful guitar, and you're a lucky man to own it. The early LS120s are awesome guitars. Please don't take the following as trying to "rain on your parade" or "bring you down" or anything like that. There probably are some non-veneer LS120s and even if it really is veneered it doesn't affect the tone or playability or beauty of the guitar (other than probably making it more beautiful). I pondered posting something before, but I wouldn't want someone to pass up the joy of owning one just because it might possibly be veneered. If I had known mine might be veneered, I might have done something stupid and bought a Historic instead.

Given Polybiss's location in Poway, CA and his writing style, I'm pretty sure he used to sell under the name "mackelchea". He posted here as "Ochay". (What are the odds of there being another Tokai collector in Poway?) If my presumption is correct, he's the same guy who sold me my '80 LS120. I'm sure he believed it had a non-veneered top, and I'm sure he believes the ones he's selling now have non-veneered tops. Just as I'm sure he thinks the fretboard is Brazilian rosewood.

But as we found out with mine, it's not that easy to see the veneer just by looking in the pickup cavities. If mine didn't have a small area where the veneer has lifted a tiny bit, I think I could still convince myself that it wasn't veneered. (A year later the delamination hasn't gotten any worse and I don't think it's going to peel off like the 2-ply veneers on some Grecos.) See this thread from last year:http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13572

I took lots of pics of mine trying to highlight the flame and this pic was the best I could do. It's not super flamey in this pic, and in real life, from most angles, under most lighting conditions the flame is even more subtle.
normal_lester_003%7E0.jpg


They didn't typically use wild flame veneers on the veneered LS120s. They went for the look of most real '59s, not the garish flamboyant flame popular today. Mild flame isn't proof that it isn't veneer, nor are matching seams/joins, nor even a little flame in the thick maple cap under the veneer.

Since yours has non-stock pickups, you might consider scraping away a little finish on a pickup cavity wall to verify. Just to add to the general knowledge database. If you do that, the veneer is thin and the glue line is almost invisible -- you have to look super closely.

Again, it doesn't really matter. Just as it doesn't matter if the fretboard is really Brazilian or "just" one of the nicest pieces of Indian/Madagascar/whatever rosewood your fingers will ever touch. You'd have a hard time finding a better sounding/looking/feeling Les Paul unless you could afford a genuine '50s LP. (Maybe even then, although I don't want to stray too far into hyperbole.)

I'm having a hard time hitting the "submit" button. I really don't want this post to be misconstrued. You've already played it, stared at it in awe, caressed it and fallen in love with it. If you suddenly discovered that it had a balsa wood core or was chambered or something like that, the guitar itself wouldn't be any different than it was before you discovered that.

My children will have to pry my veneered LS120 from my cold dead hands or cremate it with me. (I hope it won't end up in the urn with me -- future generations deserve the privilege of seeing it, hearing it, and playing it.)
 
BTW, you paid significantly less for yours than I did, and yours is in mintier condition. Mine's got a lot of play wear (which I love, but it lowers the value), and the truss rod cover and knobs are non-original. (The PCB was removed but came with it in the case.) Mine has the stock DiMarzio PAF's but yours are excellent and lots of people prefer the historically correct look of covers.

I bought mine at the top of the market just before the economy crashed, but I haven't regretted it.

Again, congratulations. Awesome guitar, awesome price. Welcome to the LS120 club.
 
Bobwise, thanks for yet more helpful information (I used to live in San Diego and you're right the chances of Poway harboring more than one Tokai nut seem slim). I would like to believe of myself that I'll always prefer the truth to the polite (though it probably isn't true). In any case I take no offense and I think it will be a while before I come down from my current cloud. I do want to reemphasize that my entire interaction with the seller was positive and I believe he believes what he said. I'm not asking anymore than that from anyone (let alone from a fleabay transaction). Though I wish your top had turned out as you had expected and still hope mine to be solid I am pretty sure I will remain as happy as you seem to be even if it doesn't--it is simply too pleasing an instrument to succumb to my stupid attempts at dissatisfaction. My new baby is currently at the doctor getting her first check up but I will try to post some relevant pics for you when she comes home (even at the risk of supplanting the tedium of the siege of Troy with the veneer/solid top wars).

In addition to needing a fret dress one thing my luthier (of the irreproachable Hoffman guitars of Mpls) noticed right away is that there is some sag/compression in the bridge. He hopes to be able to "bend" it back so the saddles form the appropriate radius but offers no guarantees of success long term. I am wondering whether or not this a common problem for these older Love Rocks and if anyone has any thoughts on a replacement should it come to that.
 
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