chrisheyes
Well-known member
Does anyone know when the Les Paul Reborn with the word "Retrospec" were made ? :-?
Les Paul Reborn
- Thread starter chrisheyes
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bobtastik
Well-known member
So, it was you who bought the one off Ebay this week then ? I wanted that !!!
Hmm, very interseting & mysterious guitar ... I didn?t see the recent one on eBay, but ?. Tokai photo Gallery (Registry) has pic of a Retrospec owned by Jannis Panagou http://www.tokairegistry.com/tokai-info/tokai-pictures.html), and there?s also some discussion in a few old threads from around 2002, eg http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1836&highlight=retrospec .
Seems like guys think Retrospec is a fairly recent model, some sort of limited edition re-introduced by Tokai circa.2000. True Mr Panagou?s guitar does have single ring tuners, whereas early Tokai pre-1980 all had double ring, and the word ?Retrospect? is only shown on TRC, which is easily swapped/changed (pickups seem to be some obscure brand called ?Haeussel???). Still wouldn?t surprise me if it actually turns out to an early model circa.1978 ? I guess you also need to judge from the age & wear on the guitar ? does it look like 5 years old, or 25 years? :-?
Ian.
Seems like guys think Retrospec is a fairly recent model, some sort of limited edition re-introduced by Tokai circa.2000. True Mr Panagou?s guitar does have single ring tuners, whereas early Tokai pre-1980 all had double ring, and the word ?Retrospect? is only shown on TRC, which is easily swapped/changed (pickups seem to be some obscure brand called ?Haeussel???). Still wouldn?t surprise me if it actually turns out to an early model circa.1978 ? I guess you also need to judge from the age & wear on the guitar ? does it look like 5 years old, or 25 years? :-?
Ian.
chrisheyes
Well-known member
I saw it on ebay and was intrested too !
But how do you gauge the age of a purposley aged guitar with no serial number. ... hmmmmmmm.
But how do you gauge the age of a purposley aged guitar with no serial number. ... hmmmmmmm.
bobtastik
Well-known member
This is the Ebay listing: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7307163816&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
The seller seemed very genuine to me, I asked him quite a few questions, and he said it was made in 2000, so probably a prototype of the 2002 Relics documented on the Registry.
The seller ended the auction early as he said he sold it off Ebay, is anyone here going to own up to have bought it ?????? I for one was hoping it might have been a special one off with a solid figured top instead of the veneer on top of maple. Perhaps if the buyer reads this thread he can give us some details & specs.
The seller seemed very genuine to me, I asked him quite a few questions, and he said it was made in 2000, so probably a prototype of the 2002 Relics documented on the Registry.
The seller ended the auction early as he said he sold it off Ebay, is anyone here going to own up to have bought it ?????? I for one was hoping it might have been a special one off with a solid figured top instead of the veneer on top of maple. Perhaps if the buyer reads this thread he can give us some details & specs.
chrisheyes
Well-known member
I have emailed Andy's guitar shop in denmark street London and Harry Haeusel, the pick-up manufacturer to try to assertain more about the date of the Retrospec guitar.
Both of these places are mentioned in earlier postings on here.
Andy's have replied once with
"
Hi Chris,
As far as I'm aware the Les Paul Reborn was only made for one year from
1978/9 so I presume that the one we had was indeed made then. I'm not
sure
what the Retrospec model refers to, although I do know that the Les
Paul
Reborn was originally based on the supposed "perfect" '59 Les Paul so
maybe
that's what it means.
After 1979 the guitars were briefly called Reborn, before becoming the
Love
Rock model that we have now. The guitar is still considered to be one
of the
best examples of a Gibson copy ever made.
That being said I've just checked your message on the forum and if it
is a
reissue then I don't really know when it came from, although I could
ask
around and see if anyone else might know.
Hope that helps,
Regards, "
Call my lucky, but I work in the town where the seller lives. I saw an advert he had for it locally went to see the guitar, bought it
I shall keep you posted of any further replies
Both of these places are mentioned in earlier postings on here.
Andy's have replied once with
"
Hi Chris,
As far as I'm aware the Les Paul Reborn was only made for one year from
1978/9 so I presume that the one we had was indeed made then. I'm not
sure
what the Retrospec model refers to, although I do know that the Les
Paul
Reborn was originally based on the supposed "perfect" '59 Les Paul so
maybe
that's what it means.
After 1979 the guitars were briefly called Reborn, before becoming the
Love
Rock model that we have now. The guitar is still considered to be one
of the
best examples of a Gibson copy ever made.
That being said I've just checked your message on the forum and if it
is a
reissue then I don't really know when it came from, although I could
ask
around and see if anyone else might know.
Hope that helps,
Regards, "
Call my lucky, but I work in the town where the seller lives. I saw an advert he had for it locally went to see the guitar, bought it
I shall keep you posted of any further replies
hans-j?rgen
Well-known member
Harry H?ussel is one of the german "boutique" pickup makers besides Boris Dommenget and Andreas Kloppmann. They all took part in a comparison of 19 vintage PAFs in the german guitar magazine "Gitarre & Bass" which I mentioned some days ago.ian said:
Bobastic -- thanks for the link. Photos are decent enough, but I?m still none the wiser ? just don?t know what that guitar is .
Hans-jurgen ? thanks for the info on Harry Haussel ? was he making pickups in 78, or is he much more recent?
Seems strange to me if Tokai themselves made these guitars around 2000. Why omit any serial number? The Haussel?s pup?s may be great, but seems unlikely choice for Tokai ? why not original Gotoh?s, Dimarizios, or even Seth Lovers (as used on 320) :roll: ?
Ian.
. Hans-jurgen ? thanks for the info on Harry Haussel ? was he making pickups in 78, or is he much more recent?
Seems strange to me if Tokai themselves made these guitars around 2000. Why omit any serial number? The Haussel?s pup?s may be great, but seems unlikely choice for Tokai ? why not original Gotoh?s, Dimarizios, or even Seth Lovers (as used on 320) :roll: ?
Ian.
chrisheyes
Well-known member
Ian
I have the guitar
I relaxed the strings and took out the neck pickup.
The neck tennon joint is visible in the pick-up cavity. The rosewood
fretboard is bound all the round, except at the nut.
There isn't a number stamped into the fretboard at the neck.
The flame top is a veneer, as I can't see a joint in the maple top when
examined at the neck pick-up cavity
The tail piece is aluminium.
Is there any other details I could look at for you to help date this anomoly ?
I can take pictures but haven't got a clue on how to put them on here.
I could email them to you if you pm me your address Ian ?? :-?
I have the guitar
I relaxed the strings and took out the neck pickup.
The neck tennon joint is visible in the pick-up cavity. The rosewood
fretboard is bound all the round, except at the nut.
There isn't a number stamped into the fretboard at the neck.
The flame top is a veneer, as I can't see a joint in the maple top when
examined at the neck pick-up cavity
The tail piece is aluminium.
Is there any other details I could look at for you to help date this anomoly ?
I can take pictures but haven't got a clue on how to put them on here.
I could email them to you if you pm me your address Ian ?? :-?
hans-j?rgen
Well-known member
chrisheyes
Well-known member
I've dismembered the guitar further !! :-?
There are two marks on the guitar. One on the end of the tennon on the neck and the other inside the bridge pick-up cavity
The marks are the same and are either a "2" or and "N", both are written in pencil. The mark on the neck is on bare wood and the one in the neck PUP cavity has been varnished over.
Could this indicate the year 2000 or that this was the second guitar of this type made ? Who knows, the plot thickens !!
It would be nice if other members with Les Paul Reborn Retrospec's could have a look in these locations to see what markins are in these locations too ?
I've taken off the covers on the back to look at the wiring, pots and switches.
Everything is wired point to point, no printed circuit board here !
The pots have the marking EPO 86 500K 0130
The organge capacitors have 473Z( the Z has a line through the centre)
The capacitors also have a funny looking symbol then 22 ( 22 Ohm ? )
I'm calling them capacitors, but they may be resistors, hey I'm no Rocket Scientist
Chris
There are two marks on the guitar. One on the end of the tennon on the neck and the other inside the bridge pick-up cavity
The marks are the same and are either a "2" or and "N", both are written in pencil. The mark on the neck is on bare wood and the one in the neck PUP cavity has been varnished over.
Could this indicate the year 2000 or that this was the second guitar of this type made ? Who knows, the plot thickens !!
It would be nice if other members with Les Paul Reborn Retrospec's could have a look in these locations to see what markins are in these locations too ?
I've taken off the covers on the back to look at the wiring, pots and switches.
Everything is wired point to point, no printed circuit board here !
The pots have the marking EPO 86 500K 0130
The organge capacitors have 473Z( the Z has a line through the centre)
The capacitors also have a funny looking symbol then 22 ( 22 Ohm ? )
I'm calling them capacitors, but they may be resistors, hey I'm no Rocket Scientist
Chris
hoss
Active member
These are 22 Nanofarad capacitors, typical for a Les Paul.
Without pictures we can not be sure about your guitar.
But I bet that you have a 1978 Les Paul Reborn, due to legal reasons, Tokai would not have used the Les Paul name again.
Look at the pictures of my Reborn, maybe you can make comparisons. The last picture shows my new handwired circuit with 500kOhm volume pots, the original PCB had one volume pot with 250 and one with only 208kOhm.
http://www.piller.at/music/tokai
Without pictures we can not be sure about your guitar.
But I bet that you have a 1978 Les Paul Reborn, due to legal reasons, Tokai would not have used the Les Paul name again.
Look at the pictures of my Reborn, maybe you can make comparisons. The last picture shows my new handwired circuit with 500kOhm volume pots, the original PCB had one volume pot with 250 and one with only 208kOhm.
http://www.piller.at/music/tokai
Paladin2019
Well-known member
Hmm... the finish and wear & tear on that guitar perfectly match the limited edition UK relic run from a few years ago. They didn't have serial #'s either. I don't remember ever seeing a 'retrospec' TRC but the one in the auction is shaped unlike anything tokai ever used - however, I'm pretty sure Allparts or some other supplier sell ones like that.
Reagrding use of the LP name, perhaps the company that modified the UK run were testing the water...
Reagrding use of the LP name, perhaps the company that modified the UK run were testing the water...
Chris ? yeah email the pics to me ? just hit the email button at the foot of this post (& attach the photos), or see instructions in this link for easy way to set yourself up with free photobucket account http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3563&highlight=photobucket.
Can?t think of anything really specific to date the guitar. Usual way is from serial number (but that?s absent), & different pups were used at different dates (but those are changed anyway) ? higher model Reborn & Reborn Old had binding over fret ends (as you describe, ie LS80 & above), & most if not all had model number impressed into fretboard (but not on yours, you say?) ? finish codes & model codes are often stamped in pup cavities or control cavity eg ?CSB60? but that?s not specific for any particular date.
Hoss - nice pics, nice guitar?.did you notice any improvement without the pcb (ie apart from effect of going from 250K to 500K pots)?
Ian.
Can?t think of anything really specific to date the guitar. Usual way is from serial number (but that?s absent), & different pups were used at different dates (but those are changed anyway) ? higher model Reborn & Reborn Old had binding over fret ends (as you describe, ie LS80 & above), & most if not all had model number impressed into fretboard (but not on yours, you say?) ? finish codes & model codes are often stamped in pup cavities or control cavity eg ?CSB60? but that?s not specific for any particular date.
Hoss - nice pics, nice guitar?.did you notice any improvement without the pcb (ie apart from effect of going from 250K to 500K pots)?
Ian.
hoss
Active member
I modded my Gibson for '50s wiring as well. You lose less treble when you roll back the volume.ian said:
Besides, a PCB in a classic looking guitar is just *yuck*
chrisheyes
Well-known member
Thanks for all the help and info guys
Ian
I've tried the photobucket link and set up an account, however I'm lost !!
Please pm me your email account, low tech solutions please :wink:
I can't find the email link at the bottom of your posting
Cheers
Ian
I've tried the photobucket link and set up an account, however I'm lost !!
Please pm me your email account, low tech solutions please :wink:
I can't find the email link at the bottom of your posting
Cheers
chrisheyes
Well-known member
I have received an update from Tom at Andy's guitar shop on the Retrospec
Hi Chris,
I?ve asked around and no one seems to know anything about the retrospect model. However all Les Paul Reborn guitars are built the specs of a ?59 Gibson Les Paul. That was the basic idea behind the guitar in the first place. So it could just be they added the truss rod cover name in ?79 before the name was changed completely.
I did have a look at the photos but it?s difficult to judge age from a picture so they weren?t a whole lot of help in dating the guitar. ?79 does seem likely though as if they had issued the guitar recently they would almost certainly have run into legal difficulties with Gibson again for using the ?Les Paul? name.
Regards,
Tom
I'm still non the wiser :-?
The guitar has definitely been aged deliberately to look like a '59 Les Paul, but wen was this done ? hmmmmmmmm
Hi Chris,
I?ve asked around and no one seems to know anything about the retrospect model. However all Les Paul Reborn guitars are built the specs of a ?59 Gibson Les Paul. That was the basic idea behind the guitar in the first place. So it could just be they added the truss rod cover name in ?79 before the name was changed completely.
I did have a look at the photos but it?s difficult to judge age from a picture so they weren?t a whole lot of help in dating the guitar. ?79 does seem likely though as if they had issued the guitar recently they would almost certainly have run into legal difficulties with Gibson again for using the ?Les Paul? name.
Regards,
Tom
I'm still non the wiser :-?
The guitar has definitely been aged deliberately to look like a '59 Les Paul, but wen was this done ? hmmmmmmmm
Paladin2019
Well-known member
I'm sticking with 21st century. It's definately one of the relics and they first appeared sometime around 2003.
I think the last batch were sold without serial numbers. This could actually be a very recent guitar.
I think the last batch were sold without serial numbers. This could actually be a very recent guitar.
chrisheyes
Well-known member
Paladin
I think it's earlier than 2003 as there is a posting dated 29th Jan 2002 which mentions the Retrspec truss rod cover.
Using the search facility on the forum on RETROSPEC and you will see posting by "Stokeboy" and "James" for them.
See below :
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2002 5:56 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just tried out an old Les Paul Reborn at Andy's in Denmark Street, London UK. Flame top, zebra pickups, Les Paul Reborn logo on the headstock, "RETROSPEC" (?) written on the truss-rod cover. Played and sounded fantastic, despite being quite beaten up and even when compared to a 5K Gibson reissue (honestly actually prefered it). So why didn't I buy it? An asking price of 1800 GBP (2500 USD) is why. I know they're rare but one went recently on ebay for about a third of that price. Still, if there are any rich Tokai-heads out there, go get it.....
Back to top
The recent relics are "LOVE ROCK models", this one says "LES PAUL reborn" .
Hence the confusion :-?
How old is old, when age is a state of mind ;-)
I think it's earlier than 2003 as there is a posting dated 29th Jan 2002 which mentions the Retrspec truss rod cover.
Using the search facility on the forum on RETROSPEC and you will see posting by "Stokeboy" and "James" for them.
See below :
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2002 5:56 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just tried out an old Les Paul Reborn at Andy's in Denmark Street, London UK. Flame top, zebra pickups, Les Paul Reborn logo on the headstock, "RETROSPEC" (?) written on the truss-rod cover. Played and sounded fantastic, despite being quite beaten up and even when compared to a 5K Gibson reissue (honestly actually prefered it). So why didn't I buy it? An asking price of 1800 GBP (2500 USD) is why. I know they're rare but one went recently on ebay for about a third of that price. Still, if there are any rich Tokai-heads out there, go get it.....
Back to top
The recent relics are "LOVE ROCK models", this one says "LES PAUL reborn" .
Hence the confusion :-?
How old is old, when age is a state of mind ;-)
