Tokai LC230 S - Planning to buy - Some Questions?

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NunoJBSilva

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Hi all.

Hope you're well.

I'm planning to buy my first Tokai. The one my eyes are on is the LC230S BB. I've always love Gibson BB's and my favourite player being John Sykes I had a natural tendency for these guitars. I don't have the cash or the desire to spend over >4k £ for a new guitar or 2k £ on a used Gibson.

I was looking for alternatives and went from Schecter, to ESP/LTDs. the LTD EC1000 caught my eye but after earing it online it seems a bit bright and not really how I was envisioning it. So I landed on Tokai's.

I never payed more than £800 for a guitar and I'm planning to give myself a premium guitar without going into bankruptcy :).

I'm planning to pull the plug on the LC230S (after I try it) but I would like, if possible, to get some opinions.

1 - Which model of Gibson custom do you think the tokai is closest to?
2 - What are your opinions on this guitar? Does it worth the £2k price tag?
3 - I had a look LC136S which is similar? Does the LC230S stand for the different price tag?
4 - I was informed that the LC230S weight around 3.9kg/8.6lbs while the lc136S is 4.3kg/9.5lbs both full thickness, no weigh relief. A very light general opinion is that the thicker the more gibson y fat crunchy hard rock sound you get . But I'm assuming the wood quality on the lc230s should be better therefore more sustain, etc
5 - PAF mk2 pickups? What are they similar with regarding other famous pickups? Do they stand right for that Heavy Hard Rock sound? Let's say close to the 1987 album from Whitesnake


Thanks in advance.
 
I feel like you might end up disappointed about your next buy. Mostly because you are not thinking about quality/price ratio enough ;D But you seem to buy into "heavier body = bigger sound", "wood quality = better sustain", "are MK2's good?" etc.

Most pro musicians hunt for light Les Pauls and avoid heavier ones. If you have two guitars with comparable tone, the lighter one is always better for your back and comfort.

MK2's (more vintage spec) and even MK3's (hotter) pickups are "good enough". MK2's are a great starting point.
There's no reason to think about changing them, until you try them out with your amp/cab combo. Then for example after lots of tweaking pickup height / amp settings, if you want a tad different voicing / brightness / clarity / warmth on a neck pickup, then that's a reason to experiment and look for a change. Or maybe you want to do Jimmy Page middle position "quack" with T-Top on the bridge pickup. Or Green's out of phase tone. It all depends on what tone you want.

You really shouldn't listen with your eyes, price tags or opinions of other people. Try squeezing everything you can out of MK2's using your ears. Then you will know if they've fulfilled your expectations or what direction to take with a pickup change. Also you will train your ear.
MK2's are doing their thing very well, so it won't be an "upgrade", it will be a "change".

Experimenting with pickup changes is really in the realm of classic tones with real tube amps with sparse use of effects.
If most of your tone character comes from a long signal chain of effects or if you are using modelers, then you have a lot more tone shaping options than just your amp's EQ section. So kicking out MK2's makes even less sense.

If I were to buy another Tokai guitar, I would get one with a nitro finish. For me Tokai means great quality control + good woods at reasonable price, so I would definitely go for a flame/quilt top, so I can see the woods that I've paid for ;)
 
Messer has actually killed it with a very profesionnal response that will be impossible to top. I can just bring my point of view and strenghten what he was saying.

1 - Which model of Gibson custom do you think the tokai is closest to?
Tokai LC230s bb should be of the premium line. Meaning this is Custom Shop master grade instrument. From what I know the last time I checked, Gibson didn't offer such quality in their lineup right now.
2 - What are your opinions on this guitar? Does it worth the £2k price tag?
Tokai is EXTREMELY good at making guitars in this "entry custom shop price zone". No other builder offers custom shop Master grade quality instruments for 2k, unless the guitarmaker is your stepdad and you can have it at factory price.

3 - I had a look LC136S which is similar? Does the LC230S stand for the different price tag?
They are similar in looks, not in quality. On the LC136, Tokai tryed to offer a Custom looking Traditional 2017 concurrence. So you will have concessions in the making.

4 - I was informed that the LC230S weight around 3.9kg/8.6lbs while the lc136S is 4.3kg/9.5lbs both full thickness, no weigh relief. A very light general opinion is that the thicker the more gibson y fat crunchy hard rock sound you get . But I'm assuming the wood quality on the lc230s should be better therefore more sustain, etc
Those are all forums opinions/masturbation and can be discarded as a whole, because their is no scientific fundation on such claims. Guitars are a whole package, their making is an art form. You will not be able to feel a difference between two guitars of the same type with a 300-400gr weight difference. Care of the make, quality of materials and pickups types are much more important than a few gramms.

5 - PAF mk2 pickups? What are they similar with regarding other famous pickups? Do they stand right for that Heavy Hard Rock sound? Let's say close to the 1987 album from Whitesnake
Can't say for sure. But they are definitely a honest pickup to come with a high standard guitar. I have swapped mine, for obvious reason, and didn't regretted it. But I know other that have let their oem pickups on the guitars and didn't regret them either. Especially with pickups it will be your taste that will shine through. For each guitar and guitarist, there is a good pickup, that will match every of your desires. It's more of a sidequest in your research of your own sound.

At least, what is important/central to your relashionship with a guitar, is your own feeling, and how you will be able to express yourself on the instrument you choose.
 
Harima_San said:
3 - I had a look LC136S which is similar? Does the LC230S stand for the different price tag?
They are similar in looks, not in quality. On the LC136, Tokai tryed to offer a Custom looking Traditional 2017 concurrence. So you will have concessions in the making.


If it is possible may ask where are the major concessions you'll have to do on the LC136's?

I can see they have Indian Rosewood instead (not a concession per se but I prefer ebony) and the pickups are the same. The mahogany type is different but if you could point some of the most noticeable differences would be great. I'm asking because if I go with the LC230S it's because I liked it when I've tried it and there are other Tokai's that I can probably buy. I'm not interested in buying another Premium other than the LC230S therefore my question regarding the vintage series LC136.

Thanks.
 
Pots are cheaper
The wiring is cheaper
The caps are cheaper
The wood is cheaper, maybe freshier too
The assembly isn't overlooked by a master luthier of the brand, it's more of an industrial product
Also craftsmen with starting experience can do a vintage series, premiums are reserved for the best members of the team
Finish will not be nitro under coat but cheaper to make (I think poly if I remember right)
Guitars with flamed top will generally have veneered top on solid maple
Guitars with bindings will have simple bindings in regard to multiple binding on the premium
Corpus is one piece on the premium, two on the Vintage
I don't know for the hardware (mics/bridge/...)

But don't understand me wrong. The Tokai craftsmen are reknowned to be good, and, in good japanese fashion, they will take the time needed to "not bring shame to the enterprise". So you will very probably find a satisfying guitar also in the vintage series. As proof, there are a lot of users in this group that have vintage series and are extremely happy about it.

But between the two lineups, there is the rift of "small atelier guitar produced with semi-industrial methods" vs "custom shop guitarmaker insrument". Depending of where your priorities/tastes are, you will find your joy with one or the other.
 
In my own experience, as above you go in the lines the better you get. If you don't want to spend so much money you will get a good instrument for the money. LS320s are fantastic guitars and the ones I love (owned four) and keep besides four old models at this time. I whisthTokai had a LC320 at the time, I would buy it no doubt, I do love Customs!
 
Hi all.

Hope you're well.

I'm planning to buy my first Tokai. The one my eyes are on is the LC230S BB. I've always love Gibson BB's and my favourite player being John Sykes I had a natural tendency for these guitars. I don't have the cash or the desire to spend over >4k £ for a new guitar or 2k £ on a used Gibson.

I was looking for alternatives and went from Schecter, to ESP/LTDs. the LTD EC1000 caught my eye but after earing it online it seems a bit bright and not really how I was envisioning it. So I landed on Tokai's.

I never payed more than £800 for a guitar and I'm planning to give myself a premium guitar without going into bankruptcy :).

I'm planning to pull the plug on the LC230S (after I try it) but I would like, if possible, to get some opinions.

1 - Which model of Gibson custom do you think the tokai is closest to?
2 - What are your opinions on this guitar? Does it worth the £2k price tag?
3 - I had a look LC136S which is similar? Does the LC230S stand for the different price tag?
4 - I was informed that the LC230S weight around 3.9kg/8.6lbs while the lc136S is 4.3kg/9.5lbs both full thickness, no weigh relief. A very light general opinion is that the thicker the more gibson y fat crunchy hard rock sound you get . But I'm assuming the wood quality on the lc230s should be better therefore more sustain, etc
5 - PAF mk2 pickups? What are they similar with regarding other famous pickups? Do they stand right for that Heavy Hard Rock sound? Let's say close to the 1987 album from Whitesnake


Thanks in advance.
I cannot answer all your questions regarding the gem you’re about to pull the trigger on, but I’ll say this. I recently purchased the LC225 - wine red, gold trim. This one is all mahogany, ebony fretboard with fret edge binding, long neck tenon, all lacquer and is also quite light for a “Custom”. Impressive is not strong enough to qualify that guitar. I mean, I sold my Gibson LP Custom Silverburst because I prefer the Jap to the American in this situation. Quality is evident throughout and the sound… wow….even the stock pickups therein are top shelf…and I’m usually the kind of guy who switches pickups on most of my guitars. Except that in this case, I like that guitar just the way it is. It sits proudly and gets played equally as much as my beloved 2005 Yamano R9. It’s that good so, take the plunge my friend, you won’t have the slightest regret I’m sure.
 
I cannot answer all your questions regarding the gem you’re about to pull the trigger on, but I’ll say this. I recently purchased the LC225 - wine red, gold trim. This one is all mahogany, ebony fretboard with fret edge binding, long neck tenon, all lacquer and is also quite light for a “Custom”. Impressive is not strong enough to qualify that guitar. I mean, I sold my Gibson LP Custom Silverburst because I prefer the Jap to the American in this situation. Quality is evident throughout and the sound… wow….even the stock pickups therein are top shelf…and I’m usually the kind of guy who switches pickups on most of my guitars. Except that in this case, I like that guitar just the way it is. It sits proudly and gets played equally as much as my beloved 2005 Yamano R9. It’s that good so, take the plunge my friend, you won’t have the slightest regret I’m sure.
You just answered a post from over 2 years ago! Now I'm curious if the OP ever bought his LC230s? LOL
I have one and love it, but had to switch out the MK2 Vintage pickups for something a little hotter, but with plenty of versatility. Went with the Duncan Hotrod set. Good stuff!
I also have a Tokai LC212 BB that has a slightly thinner 60's style neck, with chrome hardware. Those also have MK2 pickups but are definitely hotter than what came in the LC230. They are not quite as hot as a Duncan JB, but maybe more along the lines of a Gibson 498T. I am thinking about maybe throwing a Distortion in the bridge, but have left it stock, for now.
I really like the 2 Tokai's that I own, and would recommend them to anyone. Even the cheaper Chinese models seem to hang, if not be a hair better than the Epi's with a similar price tag.
Anyway...
Here is to keeping a two year old thread alive! LOL!
 

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