Rickenbacker Copy and Korean Production

[Sigmania]

Anyone have an opinion on this one? Korean?

Rickenbacker 330 style Tokai.

Back of head stock has a white label, possibly a re-seller's label, that reads: "ELGUITOK08" (As in Electric Guitar Tokai '08), and "MADE IN KOREA".

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325162882...b_vTl8uRJe&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

From the listing:

"Tokai Semi acoustic guitar 330 Style. Probably the best copy of the iconic rickenbacker 330 very rare and harder to find than hens teeth in very nice condition

Please see the last photo for the tailpiece and headstock cover upgrade still have the original parts"

 

[mdvineng]

The Ricky's hardly if ever appear in the catalogues for some odd reason and are easy pray for hooky versions. I've seen direct from China versions appear in the UK over the last few years.

This one could be a legit version from Korea though as no ser# and a typical MADE IN KOREA label.

I've never really taken to the aesthetics of Rickies since first seeing them in the late 60's, I was put off by the gawdy paint schemes and very poor quality finish of same.

Found this on another forum.

MO it's safest to say that unless the word "Tokai" actually appears on the instrument somewhere it's not a Tokai.

The problem is that Tokai no longer make all their own instruments in Japan but outsource to Korea and China for the cheaper end of their ranges. What makes these instruments Tokais apart from the the name on the headstock is not the factory that they were built in but the specifications and QC that they are built to. It may well be that the Rockinbetter basses are built in the same Chinese factory that also builds some Tokai branded instruments, but unless they were commissioned by Tokai in Japan and built to Tokai's specifications all it means is that they come from the same factory. That's how the big instrument building factories in the Far East work. They build to different standards as specified for anyone who will pay them. Someone is paying them to make Rockinbetter basses but it's almost definitely not Tokai.

IMO the association between Tokai and Rockinbetter is a myth perpetuated by the internet and the importers of Rockinbetters in an attempt to give the instruments some added kudos. However the real quality that is associated with Tokai instruments is from those made in Japan. The current MIK and MIC Tokais are probably a cut above most of the instruments from those countries with other branding, but they are not of the same standard as the classic Tokais from the 80s upon which the reputation of the Tokai brand has been built. You can still get MIJ Tokais but expect them to come with 4 figure + price tags by the time they reach the UK.

BTW Tokai has not had a problem with making Tokai branded Rickenbacker copies in the past. I have a Tokai Japanese catalogue from 2001 that features 3 such instruments. However they are all guitars not basses. I have never seen a Rickenbacker bass copy with the Tokai name on it.

Of course that doesn't necessarily make the Rockinbetter basses bad instruments. But the supposed connection to Tokai is tenuous to say the least and there is no actual proof other than the word of those who have a vested interest in selling them. I do believe though that the price of the Rockinbetters has become overinflated due to the Tokai name. Try one. If you like it and the price is reasonable then buy it. However don't be swayed by the Tokai name and don't expect the quality of a MIJ Tokai because it's not there.

 

[mdvineng]

Some more from the same source.

Tokai use to list the Rockinbetter on there home site back in the early 80s but had Tokai on the TRC but it was not for export (A number of there guitars were not export back then Strats mostly) and they are still listed in there guitar search on there forum, it was around 84 they started using Rockinbetter on there TRC, they also made rockinbetter lead guitars as well as basses. there seems more on there forum about the guitars than the basses but it all before the mid 90s. but the site has not been updated in almost 10 years or more so I think it dead now.. there is also the fact that Ric took action again Tokai back in the late 80s and stoped them imported into the USA and Canada. I think Gibson tried to do the same but lost!!! in germany!!!
it was just after this that Tokai parted company with Rockinbetter. after that Rockinbetter were removed from there site by then. they were made in China then and had been for a few years. the early bolt necks were made in Japan and are hard to find some have Tokai on the TRC and the later thru neck have Rockinbetter.
in the early 2000 rockinbetter was very had to find in the uk and its only in the last 3 or 4 years that Tokai Ltd uk have started to import them again in any great number.
Robert Murdock started the Tokai guitars (UK) Ltd in 2002 and hase been importing them since then as far as I can tell. there was a Tokia Korea and i dont know it it has anything to do with the other two companys.
before that it was imported by Tokai Japan into the UK. again Tokai Japan could be just the importers before 2002.
it is really hard to find out who now makes them and where. most do not have serial numbers so that makes them harder to trace. Cort seem the most likely. the ones with s/n mostly start CN and that Cor-Tek!
look up Tokai RG43 it was there copy ric 330 and one of there best sellers and they also made a 12 string and i think that the guitar that ric stoped them importing to the USA.
here is a link of the paul weller ric 330 tribute using the Tokai rg43 and the certicate.
http://newyork.craig...3439816827.html

 

[Sigmania]

Interesting discussion. Where is that from?

Also, is he saying a CN prefix is Cort?

 

[mdvineng]

It was from Basschat circa 2012. It has a few incorrect assumptions in there but the general gist on Rickies from Tokai seems about right from the viewpoint here in the UK.

I posted them as more food for thought than a gospel.

 

[Sigmania]

Result of a Google search of Korean guitar manufacturers:

South Korean Manufacturers of guitar and Suppliers of guitar

World Musical Inst. South Korea Manufacturer. ...
Samick Musical Instruments Co., Ltd. South Korea Manufacturer. ...
Hanchang Co., Ltd. South Korea. ...
Jin Young Metal. South Korea Manufacturer. ...
Maxpeed Co., Ltd. ...
Woosung Chorus Industries. ...
Nova Commercial. ...
Cor-Tek Corporation.

 

[Sigmania]

What about the FC “fine corp” prefix, or the one the article you just linked saying a CN prefix means Cort and not China…

 

[mdvineng]

I did say that there were some inaccurate assumptions in amongst the two posts and that it was just the general gist of them as food for thought!
FC being Fine Corp is one for a Chinese guitar as is CN being Cort. You would need to dig into the actual ownership of these factories if you could even locate them.

From the Epiphone/Gibson forum
B Bohêmia Musico-Delicia (Czech Republic)

BW ____?____ (China)

DW DaeWon (China)

EA QingDao (China) = Epiphone Acoustic

ED is from their Epiphone Dongbei factory. The Chinese Dongbei means North-east.

EE QingDao (China) = Epiphone Electric

F Fujigen (Japan) = Elite/Elitist models

F/FN Fine Guitars (Korea) = non-Elite/Elitist models

GG (two identified -- Epiphone says it has no record of using GG -- may have slipped through system or are 3rds)

I Saein (Korea)

J Indonesia (Jakarta ?) -- note: one Elitist model made in Japan has been reported having a J letter code

K Korea Ins. (Korea)

L ____?____ (Korea)

MC Muse (China)

MR = Mirr factory, China

N--> see FN

O Choice (Korea)

P/R Peerless (Korea)

S Samick (Korea)

SI Samick (Bogor, Indonesia)

SJ SaeJun (China)

SM Samil (Korea)

SN ____?____ (Indonesia)

T Terada Gakki Seisakusyo (Japan)

U Unsung (Korea)

UC Unsung China (China)

Z Zaozhuang Saehan (China)

Unconfirmed id's

J Indonesia?

N China

 

[mdvineng]

Some more codes

https://www.fuzzfaced.net/serial-number-stratocaster-china-indonesia.html

https://www.stillkickinmusic.com/blogs/still-kickin-blog/the-serial-bowl this link shows Cort using CN but way before the Chinese factories setup and probably where some assumptions were made on Basschat?

CN was also used by the Fender custom shop.

 

[Sigmania]

The FC being Chinese is helpful. That wasn’t clear to me before as I was relying on what Reborn Old had said in an older thread, now I’m viewing his comment differently as saying it’s probably Chinese as well. Thanks!

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20753

 

[mdvineng]

It was interesting that on the Epi/Gibson forum, they said that Gibson often confirm which letter codes are from which factory but for some of the codes, they refused!

What could they be hiding I wonder.

 

[Sigmania]

Interesting. Also appears that Cort has manufacturing in China as well as Korea.

From Wikipedia:

"Cort Guitars (Cor-Tek Corporation) is a South Korean guitar manufacturing company located in Seoul.

The company is one of the largest guitar makers in the world, and produces instruments for many other companies.

It also has factories in Indonesia and China."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cort_Guitars

 

[mdvineng]

The search for ever cheaper labour never ends

 

[Tokairic]

What about the Ric copies? I've had two, the first one with the Tokai script on the truss cover was MIK, the second one with the R tailpiece (Rockinbetter truss cover) was Chinese I think but can't be certain. The Korean one was closest to the Ric, the second one I added the bridge cover to make it closer. I added the blend control to both guitars, and wired it to work like the Ric. I also remade the pick guards on both from thicker translucent white to better replicate the Ric.
Wish I'd kept one at least - probably the Korean one which seemed better built.

 

[Sigmania]

What about the Ric copies? I've had two, the first one with the Tokai script on the truss cover was MIK, the second one with the R tailpiece (Rockinbetter truss cover) was Chinese I think but can't be certain. The Korean one was closest to the Ric, the second one I added the bridge cover to make it closer. I added the blend control to both guitars, and wired it to work like the Ric. I also remade the pick guards on both from thicker translucent white to better replicate the Ric.
Wish I'd kept one at least - probably the Korean one which seemed better built.

Korean Rickenbacker 12 string clone?

With serial number?

J2902270

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1154243664...b_vTl8uRJe&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[Tokairic]

Looks very nice. Neither of mine had any serial number anywhere to be found, and no label in the sound hole either. I managed to identify the first one as Korean through contact with the Tokai importer at the time, about 9 years ago.
At that time the real 12 string Rickenbackers were being heavily discounted at the Ric dealers. I did wonder about buying one and taking six strings off.

 

[Sigmania]

Korean versions are hard to identify without being marked.

These ones with serial numbers that have a letter prefix seem to be at the end of the Tokai/Korea relationship. Some if not all being possibly unauthorized.

Just curious what factors seemed to be Korean? Mini pots? And hardware like tuners marked Korea?

 

[Tokairic]

Korean versions are hard to identify without being marked.

These ones with serial numbers that have a letter prefix seem to be at the end of the Tokai/Korea relationship. Some if not all being possibly unauthorized.

Just curious what factors seemed to be Korean? Mini pots? And hardware like tuners marked Korea?

I sent photos and detail to the importer and he told me that the one with the Tokai truss cover and toaster pickups woulld be Korean made. It did look all round a slightly better made and finished guitar than the Rockinbetter.

 

[Tokairic]

Korean versions are hard to identify without being marked.

These ones with serial numbers that have a letter prefix seem to be at the end of the Tokai/Korea relationship. Some if not all being possibly unauthorized.

Just curious what factors seemed to be Korean? Mini pots? And hardware like tuners marked Korea?

I've been thinking about this - its been a while but I am sure the pots on the Tokai truss cover badged one were full size. Your other post mentions stamped neck plates but there isn't one on the Ric copies. I can also remember looking at the catalogues on this site to try to date the Tokai Ric.

 

[Sigmania]

Yeah, on the set neck Korean Tokais there was rarely a serial number until we get into the period after 2005 when licensed production was moved to China.

It is possible that some of the factories that had been making guitars for Tokai continued to do so on their own and put the Tokai name on the headstock.

Some of these mfrs likely already had relationships with Tokai dealers and it looks like some orders were made without the knowledge or consent of Tokai in Japan.

It surprises me how bold they were if they would add serial numbers to guitars that were not legitimate. I am thinking specifically of the Fakais with the stickers that proclaim they are "Manufactured under licence for Tokai Gakki Co. Lid*.

Manufactured Under License For... Fakais

Others have these letter prefix serial numbers like the 12 string Ric copy I linked above may have been made before 2005 and may be unauthorized. Possibly a reason they moved to China?

Letter Prefix Serial Number Korean

If yours didn't have a serial number then that argues for it being a legitimate Korean Tokai. Chinese versions had serial numbers. Fakais had serial numbers.