Tokai's built outside of Japan and Korea

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Donkey Oaty

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I came across two Tokai's that were aimed at the budget market yesterday.

One was a Gibson Explorer copy and the other a Flying V. They came in a bundled shipment of 400 Guitars from a factory in Indonesia that makes for Stagg, Squier , Jay Turser and a few other brands .
A good friend of mine has been buying and selling large volume guitars like this for quite a few years now and always gets a few surprise guitars in the shipment, but this one was quite out of the blue.


The Tokai logo is on the truss rod cover and the SN on the Explorer is 0576533. No other markings show where they were made. He contacted the company to see if this was a new range and they explained that Tokai were having a few budget range guitars produced under trial with a view to competing with Epiphone and Squier. But they never progressed with it. The guitars are not purpose built , they are re-badged versions of there standard production line runs ( The Explorer is sold under 3 headstock names at present ).

The retail price in the UK would have been around ?149.


The Flying V was sold within an hour by a collector of Tokais and I mangaged to skank the Explorer. It aint bad and is made out of Solid Mahogany.
 

ned

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DO-

Tokai's made in Indonesia are counterfiet. There are only 2 factories that make authentic Tokai's - 1 in Japan and 1 in Korea.

Verified this information with Tokai Gakki.

Ned
 

Donkey Oaty

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ned said:
DO-

Tokai's made in Indonesia are counterfiet. There are only 2 factories that make authentic Tokai's - 1 in Japan and 1 in Korea.

Verified this information with Tokai Gakki.

Ned

I doubt Tokai are going to tell you there marketing plans :-? If they decided not to bother, do you think they are going to admit it ?


Im sorry but these are verified has Tokai by the paperwork, they may not be worth much ( About ?70 I would say ), but there Tokai alright.

Try asking some eBay power sellers who sell guitars, they have also come across this. The factory has no need to produce fakes, they already produce Ibanez and Yamaha budget guitars.
 

20 century boy

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If I had the choice between believing a japanese company and a ebay power seller i would definitely go for the japanese company... :roll:

What means "power seller"?? That he's honest? No, it means that many people paid and recieved something...

I see one motiv for producing fake Tokai: It's a brand with a nice reputation but unable to make big legal actions. So, for a guitar factory, it's better to produce fake Tokai than guitars with no brand and it's 100% benefit.

just a guess...
 

togps

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Donkey Oaty said:
.... Try asking some eBay power sellers who sell guitars, they have also come across this. The factory has no need to produce fakes, they already produce Ibanez and Yamaha budget guitars.

Donkey Oaty, That's absolutely BS!
ned and 20 century boy : I agree!
 

Donkey Oaty

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20 century boy said:
If I had the choice between believing a japanese company and a ebay power seller i would definitely go for the japanese company... :roll:
...

Good for you.


Now we have established that it is not worth passing on information on here, let us proceed. I am to busy to bother trying to convince people of something they dont want to be convinced about.


You carry on in your believes without even seeing any of the info I have and I will carry on with my believes and we will all live happily every after.
 

20 century boy

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Donkey Oaty said:
Now we have established that it is not worth passing on information on here, let us proceed. I am to busy to bother trying to convince people of something they dont want to be convinced about.


You carry on in your believes without even seeing any of the info I have and I will carry on with my believes and we will all live happily every after.
As you like... newbie! :lol:
 

Donkey Oaty

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20 century boy said:
Donkey Oaty said:
Now we have established that it is not worth passing on information on here, let us proceed. I am to busy to bother trying to convince people of something they dont want to be convinced about.


You carry on in your believes without even seeing any of the info I have and I will carry on with my believes and we will all live happily every after.
As you like... newbie! :lol:

:lol:
 

stratmoto

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I don't suggest that what you are saying about these guitars is not true.

Please allow me to respectfully suggest that, perhaps, it may be within the realm of possibility that the information that you have been given may not be absolutely 100% factual.

Somewhere "down the line" something smells a little fishy though.

If Tokai Gakki Co. Ltd were to have guitars manufactured by a third party producer on a trial basis, I would not expect that these would be released to the public prior to some authorisation.

You would expect that the trial production run would be sent back to Hamamatsu for evaluation.

In the recent interview with Mr Adachi, he categorically stated that Tokai guitars would not be manufactured by any othe factories.

Colour me skeptical.

Peter

Anyway, I only know 3 chords :D :lol:
 

luis

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I believe Mr. Adachi too.
I'd never buy a cheap guitar like those indonesian ones after trying japanese Tokais.Way too much diference in quality.I know what I'm saying by experience.Why would Tokai need to ruine its great reputation as quality guitars maker?
 

Donkey Oaty

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stratmoto said:
If Tokai Gakki Co. Ltd were to have guitars manufactured by a third party producer on a trial basis, I would not expect that these would be released to the public prior to some authorisation.

You would expect that the trial production run would be sent back to Hamamatsu for evaluation.

:

Excellent point and one that I would have tried to answer if other people were not so dismissive.

The guy had a chat with a few other UK importers who have also had Tokai badged models come through. The factory in question is a well respected factory that is trusted by a number of worldwide major importers including Fender, the chances they are making fakes are zilch, zero. They have too much to lose for a few fakes worth less then 0.001% of there monthly turnover.

If this factory was making fakes and making a profit from them, then there would be thousands of these guitars springing up all over the place, the factory would prob lose contracts and there reputation within weeks.

All the import packages that have contained guitars like these have one thing in common, they are sample packages with an initial minimum order value of around $2500, in these packages you get a sample range of there stock with a few odds and sods chucked in . You have to spend at least $5000 if you want to select the guitars you want.


I don't know where they come from, I have no personal interest where they come from. All I know is that the reasons given are highly feasible. These factory's make guitars for Fender, Jackson, Stagg, Yamaha, Ibanez , Roberts and so on. Any large company who wants to produce a budget range tends to visit one of these factory's. So who knows what the hell they have there ?
These guitars are never sold in shops or on ebay because the dealers have a waiting list for these and they sell within minutes through one phone call, hence why I said I quickly skanked the Explorer. The guy who bought the flying V posts on here ! ( it is up to him to come forward ), he is the one who put me onto this site. He seems to know his stuff about Tokai and he also is aware of this little gems.


I am just the messenger who got caught up in an argument about the bloody things ! ( dont shoot me for telling the forum what I found ! )


If it makes everyone happy then I will cave in and admit I have an alien guitar, so we can get on and play again
 

Paladin2019

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The factory may not know about the fakes. It may not even be that factory - paperwork can be forged.

Epiphone don't sell any guitars in korea because of the mass counterfeiting problem. Workers shove crap material into the machines and sell the end result on the streets. I don't see how a brand like tokai could be immune to this especially if the only branding is an engraving on a piece of plastic.

I'm inclined to believe Tokai on this one. Take ebay with a pinch of salt - how many erroneous/misinformed listings have we picked up over the years?
 

Donkey Oaty

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Paladin2019 said:
Take ebay with a pinch of salt - how many erroneous/misinformed listings have we picked up over the years?

Point taken, but take my comments in context.

I wish I never used ebay as an example, I am on about known and trusted HIGH STREET dealers that also happen to sell on ebay ( like many dealers in the uk do now ).
 

chu71

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thanks for the info, i think its good for someone to come fwd and let us know this kind of thing.
anyway, since the forum seems to have access to Mr. Adachi, pls let him know although the guitars are woow, the customer support sucks bigtime. countless times i ve tried to contact tokai to no response.
ok, ity s a company that has always kept a low profile for obvious reasons, but they should appreciate our love for their brand.
finally, tokai is starting to spread too much isnt it? there s the canadian models (i own one from jsd and it s fine), the uk impiort models, these shady indonesian models, the mik, the mij...the hummingbird reissue, which i own...also canadian?
they should really make an effort to make sure we, the buyers, know what we re spending our money on.
thank f... there s this forum, otherwise, 80% of tokai newbies like i was 6 months ago would ve got ripped off in our first tokai deal and therefore would ve though "f.. them , they re scams"
 

Donkey Oaty

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chu71 said:
thanks for the info, i think its good for someone to come fwd and let us know this kind of thing.

Just avoid reading anything that togps posts up. His idea of fake and real is on another planet. :eek:
 

Donkey Oaty

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I have posts deleted on the fake thread for some unknown reason !


So I thought that perhaps here would be the best place to post a question.


If you have read this thread then you know that the debate is over Tokai having a budget guitar produced outside of Korea or Japan.

Amazing that some of those Tokais shown in the fake thread are also sold unde the Washburn badge . The P bass in a prime example of an unbranded import from the same factory where the Tokais come from.
 

Donkey Oaty

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magentaplacenta said:
Can you post some photos of the Explorer you have?

I no longer own it. Another forum member bought it off me. Both these Tokais now went to forum members.
 

leftyTokaiMan

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I asked an eBay seller with budget Tokais about the origin of the guitars, the reply was, they are Chinese made, not the Indonasian.
 

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