Tokai Strat bought second hand in 1984 - some mystery on it.

[Kenny337]

Tokai that I bought second hand in 1984 so it must be a VINTAGE I suppose
Some mystery as far as I am concerned on this guitar - like the colour and the date of manufacture - anyway I am flogging it on eBAY so maybe this will be of interest:....and I hope it goes to a good home....

Maybe You KNow More ABout This Guitar Than I Do
The readers on this forum may be interested in knowing that such a guitar is up for grabs - and while I am getting rid of it - I would ask anyone with knowledge about this guitar to maybe tell me a little bit more about it - as I have never seen another one quite like it in terms of colour....

I have loads of High RES photos of this guitar (the ones on eBAY are small) - including macro fotos of bridge saddles etc...

Maybe someone on this forum can tell me a lot more about a guitar I have owned for 23 years and had in stirage for most of that time, I have no idea even what the official colour is....

Price
The price is (I think) reasonable - starts off at ?100 and I have asked for a BUY IT NOW price of ?230

Up for sale a Tokai on Ebay UK site.
Item number: 290129009336

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=019&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&viewitem=&item=290129009336&rd=1&rd=1#ebayphotohosting

Vintage Tokai 'Law Suit' Springy Sound Strat early 80's

NOTES

Description
It?s an electric guitar.
A six stringed electric guitar.
It was made by the Japanese company Tokai
It is a replica of a Fender Stratocaster ? in fact from what someone has told me Tokai replicas (of this age) are considered to be pretty **** amazing guitars.
It was made in Japan.
It?s colour I think is described as ?Candy Apple Red? (though I have seen other ?Candy Apple Red? Strats from Tokai and some are pinker), this guitar is quite beautiful (honestly ? it really is) it looks almost semi-metallic finish.
Note on colour: I have never seen another Tokai quite the same colour as the one I have. SO it might not be classified as above but something else.

It has three pick-ups
It has a five-way pickup selector
It has a Maple Neck and fretboard
Saddles have ?Final Prospec? on them, there is a thread on a web site about Tokai guitars saying that the some Springy Sound models have these. (I have no idea what this means)
Machine Heads have ?DELUXE? written banner style on them (the letters on their side)
Headstock ? I have no idea if it is a big headstock or a small one ? I am not into electric guitars that much - but would guess small. Please see pics. (If anyone can help date this from the photos and the details I have)
It has a Serial Number on the neck plate on the reverse of the guitar: the number is 11085.

Note on the Serial Number
Seemingly this means (five digits on the neck plate) that it is a replica of a 1956-1960 Fender Stratocaster. I believe these replicas were subject to lawsuits between Fender and Tokai at one point, hence the lawsuit reference. Someone told me once that it is copy of an 1958 Fender but I do not know for sure. Perhaps some expert could tell me?

However, let's be honest about this - the info on the web isn't that good.

Manufactured
I tried to track down when this guitar was manufactured but there is nothing clear ? I simply do not know.

Known History
Bought as a trade-in by Sound Control in December 1983.
I bought the guitar on Monday 9th January 1984 from Sound Control a music shop in the then Gallowgate in Glasgow (the shop is now long since moved to Jamaica Street). It was second hand and my impression was that the guitar was already a few years old. Certainly the dents and bumps were on the guitar prior to my buying it.

1984 ? early 1986 I played it occasionally.
1986 until 1990 it was stored in a hard case in Glasgow.
1990 until 1994 stored in a hard case in a loft in Manchester
1994 until now in storage in a hard case in a cupboard in Glasgow, but loaned out once for a recording session.

I put strings on it a few weeks ago ? it plays better than I do.

Condition
This is not a brand spanking new shiny out-of-the box guitar, if you want one of those look elsewhere.
Never been refurbished or professionally serviced, but as it has been cared for and stored safely over the years and is playable now.
I have not polished the guitar ? I have wiped it with a cloth and it may have been polished by me at one time using beeswax bit not in the last twenty years.
Ultra-low action ? that I can vouch for.
Few belt marks on back (however nothing compared to Rory Gallgher?s), couple of insignificant dents below the bridge ? these were on the guitar when I bought it.
Saddles have lost a bit of chrome (still work though) this is probably because of sweat.
Screws are a bit de-chromed as well but this might just be grime.
Knobs and tremolo arm nicely yellowed with age.
Electronics work ? I?ve checked. But as this has been in storage such a long time buyer should check this out for themselves because fluff might have accumulated inside the cavities for the pickups. I have not opened the guitar up.
Bit of wear and tear on the metal on the neck plate (see pic).

It has a couple (well five) glow in the dark stickers I stuck on when I bought it) on the back which I will not remove but will peel off readily enough if they annoy anyone.

The important thing is ? this is not a new guitar so buy as is from the photos ? scratches, dents and all. You might have to spend a few hours cleaning it up. If you want a new guitar ? buy a new one.

Note on the LOGO
Original logo was Tokai on the headstock ? but I do not remember exactly which ? I do not think it was the one that looked like a Fender logo I think it looked like TOKAI - I took the logo off pretty much the same day as bought it as I did not like the idea that someone thought I could not afford a ?real? Strat. Madness.
Still has the original ?oldies but goldies? logo. (see pic)
However anyone concerned about this ? replacement Tokai Logo transfers are available (on the web) for anyone who cares about such things and wants this guitar as an addition to their collection, ideally though I?d like this to go to someone who is into playing ? this guitar has never really been played. Guitars should be played and I have not played this? much.

Viewing
Anyone wanting to see the guitar ? NO PROBLEM - contact me.
If you want a high res image of the pics e-mail me.



Summary
In short ? great looking, stylish and aged guitar, and as guitarists know they always sound better, been in storage most of its life, now time for someone who wants to PLAY a replica vintage guitar to buy it and give it a good home.

Note for Tokai Forum
If anyone wants to ask any questions - just ask - I will be happy to help.


Cheers

Kenny
Glasgow

 

[togps]

Kenny337, welcome to the forum.
Your guitar is not a Springy Sound.
Refer the S/N it is a Goldstar. Also Springys doesn't feature a MIJ label on the neck joint.
Did you add the second string tree on the headstock?

BTW, If you want, you could pass the forum detailed pics of the electronic cavitiy. Also a shot of the pups bobbins ...
Anyway, good luck with the auction.

 

[Kenny337]

Hi, and THANKS for your post, it was news to me that it was not a Springy Sound, but you obviously know your stuff. It's a GOLDSTAR...

No I have not added any string guide, it was on the guitar when I bought it second hand in January 1984

I have actually posted a similar sort of thread on the AUCTIONS / EBAY alert forum and there I posted the link to the pics:

http://www.productscout.co.uk/tokai%20picture%20folder/index.htm

These are high res pics - so avoid if you do not have broadband.

I do hope that the guitar goes to someone who wants to play it rather than butcher it because I ahve totally neglected playing this guitar over the years, it just wasn't my type of guitar just as my type of guitar would not be to the taste of many here on this forum.

I haven't opened up the cavity to take pics but will do so and update the pics in due course, as it is Friday night here this will be in the morning as I am off to see a band play....

Thanks again - Unbelievable Goldstar, imagine that

Kenny

 

[togps]

....I do hope that the guitar goes to someone who wants to play it rather than butcher it

I'm sure, Kenny337, the forum wish you the same.
But be a fair business partner and revise your auction text and please don't tell the kids, that you are offering a SPRINGY SOUND. Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Altough, interesting Goldstar. I always thought Goldstars are supposed to have 11 hole pickguards (i.e. '60s).
Rupert

 

[javelin70]

Kenny337, welcome to the forum.
Your guitar is not a Springy Sound.
Refer the S/N it is a Goldstar.

Gottfried, this time you could be wrong! I have the same type of serial number (five digit) on my Springy (corresponding to the Fender serials). My Springy is from 1982 (50's replica - one piece maple neck) and also has Final Prospec bridge saddles and Deluxe stamped tuners. I bought it from the original owner who bought it new in 1982. Except for the Springy logo it's identical to an early Goldstar. It also has the correct Fender style truss rod adjustment nut which the earlier Springy's don't have.

Also, the spaghetti logo 1982 Breezy Sound i had earlier also had a Fender type serial (Lxxxxx = 1963). It had a veneer rosewood fingerboard and also Deluxe stamped tuners, not Tokai stamped as on earlier models. It also had the correct truss rod adjustment nut.

Mike

 

[javelin70]

Altough, interesting Goldstar. I always thought Goldstars are supposed to have 11 hole pickguards (i.e. '60s).
Rupert

Not the Goldstar 50's replicas, they have single ply, 8 screw pickguards like they should have. Goldstars were made both as 50's and 60's replicas.

Mike

 

[javelin70]

Kenny, do you remember if the logo looked like this:

http://www.tokairegistry.com/images/tf_block.jpg

If it did it's the last Springy model that was made, the logo was used only in 1983. The earlier Springy's had the spaghetti logo like mine (see my earlier post).

Also, it would have the Final Prospec stamped bridge saddles and Deluxe stamped tuners since Tokai obviously used them already in 1982.

Mike

 

[Kenny337]

Fine forum you have here.
Really.

I wish you experts would make up your minds.

Springy Sound or Goldstar?

In? Out? Cleared off the line? And the crowd goes oooooh then aaahh? I should not have believed that this the accumulated mass of knowledge professors and research students of Tokai history could be so er, uhm ? pernickety and whatsname. But it just shows you what a passion like Toaki can never be dominated completely. Even someone as knowledgeable as Gottfried.

Anyway Re: the topic of whether this guitar is a Springy Sound (I thought it was)?well first it is, then it isn?t, now it might be again? no wonder I am getting rid of it.

Still, no one (yet) can explain the extra string guide though? (and once again hand on the good book I say quite categorically that I didn?t add it on). Someone is going to produce the original owner no doubt with a signed confession.

But until that happens it appears that I have a unique ? truly unique Tokai? ?230? Cheap. Ish. Well no, a fair price I think.

As far as the logo is concerned yes I think that the linked pic was the kind of logo that I had on the guitar when I bought it. I would not swear to it right enough unless you were holding a gun to my head that is.

Tonight I have been a-speaking to a member of your forum on the telephone and he tells me that the Tokai Les Paul?s are purty **** good too.

Anyway thanks for all the replies and the interest - it really is appreciated.

Kenny

 

[javelin70]

Kenny,

It's not that easy to be 100% sure about the Tokai strats and teles. Tokai used one kind of serial number when they started to make them. These serials make it possible to date the guitars as far as I know. Then they changed the serials and started using Fender type serials corresponding to the model year they made a replica of. A five digit serial like the ones on our strats means it's a 50's replica. The 60's replicas had Lxxxxx serials like the 60's Fender strats. It's not possible to date the guitars using these serial numbers. However, it's possible to make a rough dating using the logos, 1982 and earlier used the spaghetti logo, in 1983 they used the black block logo and after that (1984-) they used the script logo (and also changed the name to Goldstar Sound on the strats).

Since you bought the guitar second hand I guess the previous owner added the second string tree. And if you bought it used in january 1984 it could possibly be a Springy, there is of course a possibility that Tokai started manufacturing the 1984 Goldstars late in 1983 but why would anyone trade it in so quickly (december 1983)?

Mike

 

[Peter Mac]

Hi Kenny,

and to further what Javelin70 says, the original serial #'s up to 1982 had 7 digits, the first digit indicating the year of manufacture.
In 1982,they changed to 4, 5, 6 or L+5 depending on the Fender year being replicated ( 5 digit = 1958 )
'83 had a logo change and '84 a name change.
Colour is Metallic Red as Candy Apple was not offered to Europe or Australia at that time - but then again the headstocks weren't altered either. If you look inside the body cavity next time you change strings you should see a code like this 10=5 MR whilst a similar on exists at the base of the neck.

regards
Peter Mac

 

[togps]

..... Fine forum you have here.
Really.

I wish you experts would make up your minds.

Springy Sound or Goldstar?

In? Out? Cleared off the line?

Kenny, this forum is no official Tokai forum. Thank God, I have a direct access to the Holy Grail of Tokai, to receive interesting info sometimes.
At Tokai, no history was maintained in the past. Nothing was recorded. Even no S/N was registered once.
Therefore, the whole contributions are based on the knowledge and experiences of each single member.
You can use them or let it also. Quite simply as well as you like.
Anyhow, I wish you a lot of luck with your auction, though.

 

[togps]

.... Gottfried, this time you could be wrong!

Hmm, Mike you may be right. I have not thought to this transitional model
This is really very very rare.
I sold until now approx. 300 Springys. I stock continuously 30 ? 40 Springys.
Never ever I had that model you refer on my desk.
Does your ?83 Springy feature a block script?
May I ask for a pic of the headstock?
My web site is at present time under construction (will be finished soon) and it will include among others as well a huge compendium of Tokais history.

It also has the correct Fender style truss rod adjustment nut which the earlier Springy's don't have.

Only the early rosewood neck equipped ?60 model Springy?s don't have the correct Fender style truss rod adjustment nut

 

[javelin70]

.... Gottfried, this time you could be wrong!

Hmm, Mike you may be right. I have not thought to this transitional model
This is really very very rare.
I sold until now approx. 300 Springys. I stock continuously 30 ? 40 Springys.
Never ever I had that model you refer on my desk.
Does your ?83 Springy feature a block script?
May I ask for a pic of the headstock?
My web site is at present time under construction (will be finished soon) and it will include among others as well a huge compendium of Tokais history.

Gottfried, there's a picture of the headstock earlier in the thread. Also, as I mentioned my 1982 Breezy (TE-50, 60's replica) also had the Fender style serial (L + five digits) and a spaghetti logo.

I bought the strat from Germany in 2006 from the original owner who bought it new in 1982. Unfortunately the original pickups were replaced with Seymour Duncan SSL-1's in the 80's, otherwise the guitar is original.

It will be very interesting to see your website, I'm looking forward to it!

Mike

 

[togps]

... Also, as I mentioned my 1982 Breezy (TE-50, 60's replica) also had the Fender style serial (L + five digits) and a spaghetti logo.

Yep, I agree Mike and Peter Mac.
In 1982, they S/N changed to 4, 5, 6 or L+5 (rosewood necks) depending on the Fender year being replicated ( 5 digit = 1958 )
'83 had a logo change and '84 a name change.

 

[togps]

.... Kenny, do you remember if the logo looked like this:

http://www.tokairegistry.com/images/tf_block.jpg

If it did it's the last Springy model that was made, the logo was used only in 1983. The earlier Springy's had the spaghetti logo like mine (see my earlier post).

Just got the info from Tokai.
This model is not an official Tokai model. There was made a bulk in 1983 for UK only

 

[javelin70]

.... Kenny, do you remember if the logo looked like this:

http://www.tokairegistry.com/images/tf_block.jpg

If it did it's the last Springy model that was made, the logo was used only in 1983. The earlier Springy's had the spaghetti logo like mine (see my earlier post).

Just got the info from Tokai.
This model is not an official Tokai model. There was made a bulk in 1983 for UK only

That's interesting, does that mean they used the spaghetti logo in 1983 as well you think? I've never seen a block logo Tokai in Sweden, on the other hand they didn't start selling Tokai here until 1984. The spaghetti logo 1982 Breezy I had came from Norway.

I bought my first Tokai in 1984 (TLS-50 gold top) , my second in 1985 (TST-50 Goldstar) and the third in 1986 (traded the TST-50 for a pink metallic JSX-70 Super Edition :roll. I still have the TLS-50 and JSX-70, they are in mint contion.

Mike