Tokai Neck and Body Codes

[Sigmania]

I think I just stumbled upon what is perhaps a big clue in untangling what these codes mean.

I found two guitars that both have pot codes for January 1987 and production codes on the neck and bodies of February (2).

SN 214092
SN 217619

The interesting part is that both have mixed symbols...

The necks have the - symbol and the bodies have the = symbol.

And in one case the second number is different on the two parts.

Different necks!

One is the Fender TST style, the other is the AST!

That argues more for that second number representing different piles, batches or areas rather than from a different time period in my opinion.

The first number is definitely the month in my opinion. So far in all the cases I have seen the pot date precedes the production number. And usually by a consistent 1 or 2 months. The part is obviously made away from the factory, so they have to get the order before they can put it in the guitar. Makes sense.

A little help please.








What Tokai do I have

 

[Sigmania]

Gotta add these oddballs.

Odd Incorrect Or Mismatched Body Codes

 

[Sigmania]

And collecting these dot codes.

Dot Neck Codes

 

[Sigmania]

The Mystery Of The - Hyphen, Dash, or Minus Sign

Mysterious "V" Mark

 

[Sigmania]

Codes on my 1984 TST70 with the maple lam board. Note the star on the neck.

 

[Sigmania]

Early mention. 2007

7-1 on both the neck and body means that most likely the neck was original, and was manufactured at the same time the body was.

7-1 means,

7 is the month, so it means July of what ever year, ur case 82" or later.

1 is the batch, or group that it was manufactured that month.

So 7-1 is the first batch of bodies/necks made in July of the year your guitar was made.

 

[Sigmania]

SN 214268

Six Digit Serial Numbers With 2xxxxx

Made in February, 1987.

1987 TST50MRR

Also note, another mixed symbol 1987 guitar. = on the body, - on the neck.

Barks:

"Bought it new in first quarter of 1987. First ever consignment of Tokais for Ryde Guitar Centre , Isle of Wight. Had 50 sticker and Deluxe stamped tuners. The choice in the shop was ST40, ST 50 or ST 55. Prices ?239, ?279 and ?299 respectively. Choice was limited for an Isle of Wight lad, so these where very exotic and exciting when they came in. I bought this one for the colour and rosewood neck, and the fact the ST40 tuners looked cheap and had a similar plugged in sound to the Squiers. All the ST 55's where maple neck only and I'm not a great fan - Grey bobbin pickups. Been SD since 1989, originals long gone. Body is 3 piece Alder. Interesting that it may be a year older than I thought."

New Member Post - please help date AST56!

 

[Sigmania]

V marker

Mixed codes.

- body code

= neck code

Have seen this in 1987 guitars in the opposite direction. = on body and - on neck.

Six Digit Serial Numbers With 2xxxxx

Pots are from March 1985. (53).

Production code says it was assembled in April.

1985 AST-56SW.

AST 56 - Looking for info

 

[Sigmania]

Documenting a T stamp holdover from the Fender production era and need to differentiate a T neck from a F neck...

2011 ATE

MIJ Tokai Breezy Sound Help - Seymour Duncan User Group Forums

 

[Sigmania]

I still haven't figured out when these 5 digit serial numbers starting with 1xxxx are from, but this T mark on the neck is wild.

No month code.

What year is my Tokai custom edition

 

[Sigmania]

2010 ?

Fender style codes from Fender production?

T code

Bad link

https://ternamedical.org/3sge/bjh23011wlzjtelecavalue

 

[Sigmania]

"NM" code.

All possibly from the same month possibly in July 1983.

One is a Breezy, one is a block logo Springy, and one is a Goldstar ST50.

Note that the "1" code is on tow very different ST55 guitars. One a block logo Springy and one a Goldstar. One a rosewood board and one is maple.




Tokai Breezysound... can you help?




1982/83 Block Logo Gallery





Owned by Iain Black and shown in his book on pages 56-57

Tokai Forum Members Guitar Collection Vol. 1, The Stratocaster Copies

 

[Sigmania]

This is a first for me. Neck is marked “SHOW”.

Seems to be a prototype SX.

SX Prototype Marked "SHOW" And PR

 

[Sigmania]

Two different codes on one body, and the neck a different number. All roughly in succession....

tokai st 50 super edition

Neck pickup cavity: 4 = 8
Body: 4 = 11
Neck: 4 = 10

 

[Sigmania]

Production Process and Codes On ST Bolt On Models

 

[Voidoid56]

Here's one that passed through recently, a 1982 SS-40SGR. Model sticker still in place, and - oddly, since I bought it from Japan - a Made In Japan export sticker as well.



The body and neck codes are 10=11 and 11=1 respectively. This could either mean that the neck has been replaced, that the neck code is both reversed and incomplete or that the guitar straddles the Oct-Nov transition, i e body from the last Oct batch and neck from the first batch of Nov.
The first alternative seems unlikely, the guitar is in near-mint condition and otherwise untouched, and the second seems just a bit too sloppy for Tokai (even if we do see mistakes sometimes). My money is on the third explanation. If the month + batch number interpretation holds water, I suppose we're bound to see a few guitars with "transitional" stamps like these?

 

[Sigmania]

I'm 1,000% convinced that the first number is the month. I have just seen way too many guitars from the mid to late 80s with pots we can date, thanks to you, that track perfectly. Often the pot date is one or two months ahead of the production month/code on the guitar as one would expect with the amount of time it would take to deliver the pots to the factory.

Which brings up another point... If the pot dates are tightly related to the production date that would suggest Tokai used just in time inventory, and did not stockpile pots at least, but ordered as needed.

The two numbers on your example are sequential. If it was 10 and 4 I would be thinking something was amiss, but being sequential I think it is what you said, they straddle the end of the month.

So for me, the question is with the second number, in your case the "1"?

What would be a number that would straddle those two months? Is it a job/customer order (unlikely I think because I have seen at least two guitars that have two numbers i.e. 8 = 3 & 4)? How could one guitar be part of two jobs?



Is it a lot number for the wood source? Again, how could one piece of wood be a part of two wood lots?

Note: this particalr neck is a heavily flamed V neck on an ST100. Might have somehow required special processing?? Source? But the other example I know of is a ST60.

Is it a shift number? Work group?

Or is it related to a run of CNC routs?

This last one caused a lot of controversy in past years and a lot of people got upset. But I am wondering if rather than it being the number of a router, if it is say a run of bodies and necks through the router, which would be similar to an order number, but not tied to a specific customer or order. A batch in other words.

But this last idea is problematic because how can one neck or body be part of two batches? It could be part of a multi step process of finishing though.

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

We have seen raw wood slabs marked "nn=nn" .

1. Wood selection can be the first step in order processing = order number. Double order numbers could have been used for orders by the same customer (ordered more quantity not fast enough to be still registered as the same order, ordered 2 batches for 2 branches/shops, divided order into regular catalog models and a custom order batch, 2 orders but same payment target...)

2. It could also be a mark for production lines or model grades, higher number = higher grade of wood. That correlation could not be observed so far, or could it? Also that would be a lot of grades, because I think the highest 2nd number I've seen is 17. That theory would make double second numbers really weird.

3. It's a customer number. Have you ever seen a second number >20? Even if there is, that doesn't sound like many customers worldwide. But some of the numbers could mean the official distributors and regular quantity customers like the big store chains while a single of these numbers could mean "everything export", or 3 numbers distinguish between random direct orders from the 3 export markets EU, AS/AU, US...etc. Double 2nd numbers could be plausible in that scheme too.

Or it generally happened when production runs could be logistically combined, like "these 2 orders or customers ordered the same stuff/quantity, let's process them together"... I think that guessing game can be played forever without a way to know where the instruments were originally sold. The letters look could be figured out if it would be possible to gain enough hard evidence within our life spans to assign them to specific features, like it seems to be with the 'A' for V-necks (?).

 

[Sigmania]

1981 ST55OW

SN 1020828

Note the codes on this one.

Note that the neck and body codes have a different number in the second position. That seems to further suggest that number relates to something related to how it was made or lot.

Also note the "H' written on the neck. That seems to mean painted Headstock. Also note the color code (OW) is on the neck.

1981 Tokai Springy Sound ST55 *RARE w Matched Headstock MIJ Vintage Stratocaster | eBay

 

[Sigmania]

Is it possible that "A" means nitro cellulose finish and not the neck shape?

It seems possible based on A stamps on both U and V neck TST80 guitars.

TST80 Goldstars

bluejeannot's TST80 YSOR which I beleive has a U neck. Maybe he will confirm that?





And a TST80YS from the same thread. Also with the A stamp, but has a V neck.




TST80 Goldstars