Tokai Neck and Body Codes

[Sigmania]

No, you did it. I was just slow to hear what you were saying. My ex and my kids would agree. Lol

It’s like it all makes so much more sense now.

So my next question is when did they reset the batch numbers? Which is less important but curious.

Now I know the month and year of my guitars. Super cool.

 

[ATO]

Excellent. So that makes my block logo springy (code 11=12) more likely November 1982 rather than November 83.
Serial L05689

EDIT - no it doesn't! they were roughly at L06000 at the end of 1983 so actually Nov 83 looks exactly right.

 

[felixcatus]

So my next question is when did they reset the batch numbers?

Good one......:lol: :lol: :lol: 8)

 

[Sigmania]

Thought you might like that.

Or what do the batches mean? Are they sequential? Or refer to non sequential things like wood type, etc. Are serial numbers sequential?

It doesn’t really matter. Peter Mac probably solved this since he has logged a lot of Tokais. Looking forward to the new book. 8)

 

[Sigmania]

Here’s another question someone may have an idea about.

How can my one piece maple neck be from two lots or batches? What might that number refer to?

Neck: 8 = 3 & 4

Body: 8 = 3

 

[mdvineng]

That's easy. The 7 stamp was missing that week.

Batch numbers may refer to individual cnc machines. That would allow QC to monitor the state of the machine output and have them adjusted. Just a thought.

 

[Sigmania]

Yeah. They had a very heated argument about that back in 2009 on here in that older thread. Unlikely they would have so many expensive machines. Also, look at the first post in this thread. The second number is 32.

So whatever it means needs to account for those numbers:
-32
-3 & 4

I even saw an older post where the second number was 60 something.

It’s not that important. Just was wondering. I’m content not knowing that piece.

 

[mdvineng]

A guess. QC staff stamp.

 

[felixcatus]

Was that in an email? That’s the first time I’ve heard anything definitive from Tokai. Wow.

Yes, by email.

This was Tokai's full answer (luckily saved a copy screenshot on USB).

 

[Sigmania]

Awesome!

 

[Sigmania]

I wonder if by comparing the lot numbers and serial numbers on neck plates if that would show that both are sequential or not?

Oh Peter Mac? 8)

 

[tokaiaustralia]

Had a chat with Adachi and a few other Tokai staff this week, asked them about the stamps from the 80's (mainly regarding the superstrat types).

They said they really didn't keep all that many records during that period and their "product management was not strict".

 

[Sigmania]

Well thank you for asking. It was worth a shot. Much appreciated.

 

[Sigmania]

Here is an interesting one from what looks like a 1981 ST60 YS.

Body code:

10=3
10=4

Neck code:

10=4

Might give us a clue as to what the second number means?

I had an ST100 GS posted earlier in the thread that had a code of "8=3&4" on the neck and "8=3" on the body.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=197764#p197764

 

[Sigmania]

Among other things, it seems like the second number is in some sort of sequence since both of the examples mentioned above are numbers in sequence, 3 & 4.

 

[Sigmania]

Posted by felis in 2015 on STrat-Talk. Not sure if this was posted here on the TF as well?

Dear Customer,

Thanks for loving Tokai Gakki.

From the feature you explained, the guitar is made by Tokai at the time.
The code No. on the body and neck express lot number.
>-body code: 6=14 A
Made in June.
>-neck code: 5=16 A
Made in May.

I hope this info hellps you.

Best regards.

Tokai Gakki Co.Ltd.

https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/tokai-springy-sound.362155/page-2

 

[Sigmania]

Rare 1981 ST70

Three different production codes on one guitar. Two on the body ( 7=2 and 7=3), and one on the neck (10=8).

Two different codes on the body makes me wonder if one could be related to finish/paint and one related to cutting/sanding?

The other the neck on the neck obviously related to producing the neck.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265738565...b_vTl8uRJe&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[Sigmania]

As for the letter codes, still seems to be a bit of confusion.

A post on this forum made many years ago suggested that these were codes for tooling and finish specs - http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9686

I don’t know if this has been further discussed by members and any conclusion reached?

Man.... That thread and that assertion created a huge argument on here in years past. Interesting to see where it started.

The whole number relating to a router thing is unsupported as far as I can see.

What we came up with based on info that felixcatus and Gotfried got is that the first number of the body code is the month.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26270&hilit=production+codes

Now the X,Y,Z thing I would agree is not based on the model.

Just yesterday I saw an ST55/65 in OR color with a Z mark in the body code.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26442

I also saw an ST60 GS with a Z mark in the body code.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26438&start=15

And my 1981 TE120 has a Z mark in the body code.

I don't think it indicates the model.

Now the A stamp on the neck butt seems to correlate with a V neck as Peter Mac pointed out. Not sure how that relates to codes on the body though.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26428&p=198330&hilit=z+stamp#p198330

And

From Peter's book;

Body stamps found show A, W, X, Y and Z. Whilst others lack the letters completely.

Until 82 only 3 stamps were used X Y and A. These were used for 50, 60 and 80 series guitars.

I also found that Z was used on export models (post 82) whilst top end models always kept the A....

Not sure if that’s accurate. That Z stamp is on a 1981 TE120.

That theory needs more work IMHO.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26698&p=200451#p200451

 

[Sigmania]

Here is the code on my 1981 ST80R with the soft V neck.

A for the neck?

X for ?

 

[Sigmania]

Might be a good idea to start logging these letter codes and see if a pattern emerges?

A:

1978 ST100N. Neck: Not known, Body: 4=4 N A, (SN 0000276)
1978 ST100 OW. Neck: 8000720, Body: ST100 X L N (overpainted, SN 8000720)
1979 TE80 GS. Neck: 12=7 A, Body: 12=7 GS A (SN9005303)
1979 ST100 GS. Neck: 8=3&4 A, Body: 8=3=GS. (SN 9003909)
1979 TE80 GS. Neck: 12=7 A, Body: 12=7 GS A (SN 9005420)
1980 TE120R WR Neck: ?=15 A, Body: Not known (SN 0012035)
1980 ST80 GS. Neck: Not known, Body: 3=8 GS A (SN 0006409)
1980 ST100 N. Neck: 6=1 A, Body: 6=1 N A (SN 0000639)
1980 ST100R GS. Neck: 3=9 A, Body: 1=4 GS (SN 0000290)
1981 ST80R MR. Neck:Not known, Body: 4=1 MR A-X (SN 1013537)
1981 SS80 YS. Neck: Not known, Body:1=6 YS A Z (SN 1012478)
1981 ST85 MB. Neck: Not known, Body: 9=2 MB A

L:

1978 ST100 OW. Neck: 8000720, Body: ST100 X L N (overpainted, SN 8000720)

O:

1984 TST60 SP. Neck: Not known, Body: SP Y 6-5 O (SN 21920) Purple Sparkle
1984 TST60 SR. Neck: Not known, Body: SR Y 6-5 O Red Sparkle


W:

X:

1978 ST100 OW. Neck: 8000720, Body: ST100 X L N (overpainted, SN 8000720)
1980 ST60R FO. Neck: 1-1, Body 2-1 (struck through), 1-1 (handwritten) FO X. (SN 0016208)
1981 ST80R MR. Neck:Not known Body: 4=1 MR A-X. (SN 1013537)
1981 SS40 YS. Neck: Not known, Body: 5=5 YS X (SN 1102021, Nagano build)
1982 ST55 R GM. Neck: Not known, Body: 5=13 GM X. (SN L01762)
1983 ST50 FO. Neck: 7=1 NM, Body: 7=1 FO X (Block logo)
1983 ST55R. Neck: 5=12 MRH, Body: 5=12 MR X (Block logo)
1986 TTE55 BL. Neck: 7-12, Body: 7 12 BL X (SN 226824)

Y:

1981 ST70 YS Neck: 10=8, Body: 7=2 YSO Y
1982 SS65 N, Neck: Not known, Body: ?=25 N Y
1982 SS50 R MR. Neck: Not known, Body:8=17 MR Y. (SN 2024070)
1984 ST60 OW Neck: Not known, Body: 10=2 OW Y
1984 TST60 SP. Neck: Not known, Body: SP Y 6-5 O (SN 21920) Purple Sparkle
1984 TST60 SR. Neck: Not known, Body: SR Y 6-5 O Red Sparkle

Z:

1981 TE120 YS. Neck:Not known, Body: 10=10 YS Z
1981 SS60 OW. Neck: Not known, Body: ?=2 OW Z (SN 101479)
1981 SS80 YS. Neck: Body:1=6 YS A Z (SN 1012478)
1981 SS70S RR. Neck: Not known, Body: 1=2WN Z (SN 1023532)
1981 ST55 MG. Neck: Not known, Body: 1=3 MG Z
1981 ST65 MG. Neck: Not know, Body: 10=6 MG Z (SN 1020940)
1982 ? SS?? All black BB. Neck: Not known, Body: 4=8 BB Z
1982 SS 40 BB. Neck: 12=1, Body: 12=1 BB Z (SN 2026559)
1983 ST55 SO. Neck: 12=6, Body: 12=6 SO Z (Block logo)
1983 ST55 SO. Neck: Not known, Body: 6=7 SO Z (Block logo)
1984 ST55R OR. Neck: 7=3, Body: 8=2 OR=Z
1984 ST50/60 GS, Neck: Not known, Body:5=12 GS Z

Multiple letters:

1978 ST100 OW. Neck: 8000720, Body: ST100 X L N (overpainted, SN 8000720)
1981 ST80R MR. Neck:Not known, Body: 4=1 MR A-X. (SN 1013537)
1981 SS80 YS. Neck: Body:1=6 YS A Z
1983 ST55R. Neck: 5=12 MRH, Body: 5=12 MR X (Block logo)
1983 ST50 FO. Neck: 7=1 NM, Body: 7=1 FO X (Block logo)
1984 TST60 SP. Neck: Not known, Body: SP Y 6-5 O (SN 21920) Purple Sparkle
1984 TST60 SR. Neck: Not known, Body: SR Y 6-5 O Red Sparkle