Tokai ES-335 Dot Replicas

[Sigmania]

Ever wondered why dot-neck ES-335's were so popular? They were made with a solid beam of maple from neck heel to strap button. This was stopped in 1962 when the block inlays were introduced and affected the tone and sound of the guitar. All of the Tokai ES-335 were true to the dot-neck construction by putting the solid beam in the body. Gibson re-started doing it in 1986. Makes ya wonder, don't it!

I just spotted this very old post by Peter Mac. I didn't realize that. So are the MIJ 335 dots thru necks?

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

I just spotted your very old post (forum suggested it ), you probably found out by now that it's not a neck-through construction. Anyway:

Peter Mac referred to the "center block", which was initially massive in that the only wood removed was the pickup routes and the mortise for the tenon. This started changing after the introduction of the 355/345 and particularly the varitone switch option in 1959, access cutouts were added particularly to the bridge PU routes. This is unrelated to the block marker version though, the change was gradual, inconsistent and took several years - apparently there are mid-60s block marker 335s with no cutouts and early 60s dots that have them.

In the Norlin era this was done to an extent that there was barely wood left for a proper center block and the tenon wasn't visible in the neck PU cavity anymore. The center block did not really connect the neck with the bridge posts anymore, but that wasn't meant to be its purpose anyway, which is why the term "sustain block" is wrong: The idea was to "deaden" the top to get the most feedback resilience out of the construction, that's also why Gibson started happily adding ply after ply to the initially 3-ply tops around 1960.


SA2200 vs Norlin era 335 bridge PU cavities: There is no center block anymore, you stare directly at the bottom spruce bracing.

This is also why I wrote "The mid-Norlin-era 335s should be called "332.5", because there is so much wood missing under the top [...]" in my (shameless plug) SA2200 review - they're halfway 330s and considering how much the electronics varied on top of the construction over the years I find it funny when I see people referring to "the 335 sound", which is then described in occasionally very contradicting ways.


Norlin era neck PU cavity - were did the tenon go?



Modern era 335 (Memphis)

That ambitioned replicas like the Tokais or derivatives like the Ibanez AS or Yamaha SA were sticking to the original specifications years before Gibson (kind of) returned to them isn't surprising of course. BTW, Tokai is doing its own way of an access cutout as shown on this ES-150:



Basically a "best of both worlds" solution - easier access for everyone but still plenty of wood left for the toan.

 

[Sigmania]

Very cool. And man those are thick tops!

I didn't realize they were that thick. I would have thought half as thick.

I guess that is for sound dampening to control feedback?

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

The top laminate is typically around 0.2-0.25" thick, what makes that look so extra thick on the images is the spruce layer sitting between the top/bottom and the center block. It's really hard to see if and how Tokai did that and what wood they used, at least I couldn't find a picture showing it nicely.

Here's what it looks like (Gibson):



Yamaha:



But yes, like I wrote, Gibson wanted to control feedback more than anything else, or create monuments for the art of carving, obviously. 🙃

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks. I was looking at this on the ES150. I am guessing that is mostly the maple block I am seeing adding to the thickness of the top in that spot?

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

In the right hand corner of the routing you can see what looks like a little notch between the top and whatever is underneath. Alas the picture isn't showing this in sufficient detail. That's the bridge PU cavity at the thickest part of the whole guitar and unless Tokai carved the center block (very unlikely*), there must be a softer, lighter type of wood in between (I'm pretty sure they used spruce too but I can't find a spec sheet saying so).

* Mind you, 335s are already pretty heavy guitars as they are (usually 8.8lbs upwards, with a few somewhat lighter ones, possibly due to a lot of the heavy center block missing on many as described. One reason why the varitone circuits often got ripped out is the added weight of the circuit with its heavy chokes/inductors, the 335 is already an unwieldy guitar, adding more weight can make them insufferable.

 

[chuckyz2]

So what I am hearing is, when I change out my scratchy pots and switch, I have easier access to all that stuff? I dread having to feed it all thru the f hole.

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

The routing in the Tokai looks too small for that, if that makes anything easier on Gibby 300 series thinlines - I don't know. The access cutout was probably needed to fit this not so little bugger of a choke assembly into the guitar:



When I was working on semi-hollow electronics the last time (in the 1980s!) it was never about a pickup swap so I didn't even know there could be another hole to get to the innards and I'm not sure if that would've helped anything in that position, the effort would remain basically the same anyway so I'd probably stick to the old-fashioned method. Don't forget to tape off the F-hole sides!