Tokai Built Fenders

[Sigmania]

Looks like the general thinking on Tokai production of Fenders and that being a limited short term thing is all wrong...

It seems that they made Fenders over a period of at least 10 years (1993-2004). At least.

It is hard to know because the details of the relationship, and even the fact that they were building these guitars at all, was evidently protected by contractual agreements for OEM production.

I had noticed that some "Made in Japan" and "Crafted In Japan" bass guitars have the same hyphen - mark as Tokais from the late 80s/90s.

They also have the countersunk holes in the neck pocket fro the neck bolts in most (but not all) cases.

So these are probably Tokai built Fenders?

Two of the basses are an N+6 serial number which is 1993-1994.

From the Talk Bass forum:

"...I think that the N series with the cursive MIJ decal are Tokai builds made under sub-contract direct from Fujigen - not Fender Japan - at that time when they were retooling.

I straight up put this in an email to Tokai Gakki recently and their response was simply that they are contractually bound not to talk about OEM contracts. Fair enough - but why not just say 'we didn't build it'?"

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/help-i ... 068/page-2

Another is P0+5 CIJ which is 1999-2002.

Another is Q0+5 CIJ serial which is apparently 2002-2004.

Add that together with this from 2009:

Don't know if its right,but anybody post the Tokai made Fender serials.

A + 6桁の数字 1997-1998
Crafted in Japan

N + 5桁の数字 1995 - 1996
Crafted in Japan

O0 + 5桁の数字 1997 - 2000
Crfated in Japan

P0 + 5桁の数字 1999 - 2002
Crafted in Japan

Q0 + 5桁の数字 2002 - 2004
Crafted in Japan

R0+ 5桁の数字 2004 -2006
Crafted in Japan

S0+ 5桁の数字 2006-2007
Crafted in Japan


Volker

Fender MIJ possibly made by Tokai?


That spans a long period, a period where for some unknown reason Tokai stopped making ST guitars in Japan. 8)

The only Tokai ST guitars I've seen during this period were made in Korea and China.

The facts are hard to come by due to secrecy and contractual agreements I would assume.

So just trying to piece together bits from here and there and see where that leads.



Examples of Tokai serials and Made In/Crafted In:

(actual guitars shown in detail in thread)


1993-1994 "MADE IN" N+6


1993-1994 "Made In" N+6


2002-2004 "Crafted in" Q+6

 

[Sigmania]

Sure looks like Tokai build.

Production code with the dash line -.

Also, countersunk holes in neck pocket for mounting screws.



Q+6 serial number dates to 2002-2004.

https://www.jag-stang.com/2020/05/fender-jagstang-registry-serial-number-analysis-and-breakdown/


Hi!
I have just bought a new Fender Precision CIJ with s/n Q005519. The only marks I find in this bass are three numbers (12-6) stamped at the but neck and no marks at the neck heel. Electronics are made in Japan. It seems to be a 60’ but I would like to know more about bass. Help wanted.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/he...nside-genuine-fake-or-modified.1241068/page-2

 

[Sigmania]

N serial numbers supposedly date to 1993-1994.... Hmmmm

https://www.seattleguitarstore.com/...l-number-guide-what-year-is-my-fender-guitar/

"For comparison

These are from a N series MIJ Jazz.

The 33 on my pick up cavity stamp seems to argue against being date stamps, but the 5 on both of them corresponds with the Heisei Calender year 5 being 1993 when N series were in production."

"What got me confused however is that on my N series MIJ, the 'Made in Japan' decal is in cursive - unlike all the other MIJ basses I own which are in a sans serif typeface. Add to that the completely different stamping and I feared I bought a copy, albeit a very good quality one.

So, I did some nosing around and there seems to be a few cursive MIJ decal N series, with serial numbers from N086**** onward. They also had the same style of neck and PU cavity stamping.

On further investigation the only other producer I could find who used this style of stamping is Tokai. However, nowhere does it say that Tokai were making MIJ Fenders (as opposed to CIJ) and certainly not in 1993 when mine was made."

What is curious is that in 1993 Fujigen were apparently retooling and so some Fender Japan work got sent to Dyna Gaki and labelled as the first Crated in Japan.

Now this is where my theory comes in - I think that the N series with the cursive MIJ decal are Tokai builds made under sub-contract direct from Fujigen - not Fender Japan - at that time when they were retooling.

I straight up put this in an email to Tokai Gakki recently and their response was simply that they are contractually bound not to talk about OEM contracts. Fair enough - but why not just say 'we didn't build it'?

Let me stress, this is just a theory. I have no proof of this and it goes somewhat against the grain of the 'accepted wisdom' of MIJ v CIJ, but I think there is a lot of circumstantial evidence to support it.

Now, your bass has the advantage of must having been made by either Tokai or Dyna as it is CIJ.

If I am right about the neck stamps, I think you have a Tokai build. From what I have read elsewhere the Tokai's are better regarded builds than the Dyna Gakki builds and, moreover, the Tokai built Fenders seem to be Japanese Domestic Market (JDM) only. Again this would suggest higher quality.

I would add that Tokai were the initial front runners ahead of Fujigen back in the day to take on the initial Fender Japan work, so it makes some sense that if the work was to be split between themselves and Dyna, they would receive the higher end work.

As everyone else on TB will say though - if it sounds good and you like it that is all that counts.

This is true enough, but personally I am a fan of Japanese craftsmanship in many things (don't get me started on JDM Seiko's!) and I'd like to make a correct attribution if I could.




https://www.talkbass.com/threads/he...nside-genuine-fake-or-modified.1241068/page-2

 

[Sigmania]

SN N066433

1993-1994 production date...

https://www.seattleguitarstore.com/...l-number-guide-what-year-is-my-fender-guitar/

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/fake-mij-fender.1364645/#post-21830904

 

[Sigmania]

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/he...pics-inside-genuine-fake-or-modified.1241068/

 

[Sigmania]

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/fender-japan-jazz-neck-stamp.1387215/

 

[Sigmania]

I can't see the serial number.... Grrrr

Slab board '62.

flamedmaple69:

"Hey folks

Can you lend your experience on this situation?\

E-mailed Fender, no help
No stamp in the neck pocket other than "OLB"
Stamp on the neck says "F12-21"
Anyone familiar with the Fender Japan neck stamping codes?"

Guitarmegeddon:

"Yep that's what she is - a 2004 (if it's CIJ and Q or R serial prefix) ST-62 '1962 reissue' Strat.....but with a poly finish, not nitro....."



ST62 OLB

https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/fender-japan-help-trying-to-id-this-2004-fender-cij-strat.535506/

 

[Sigmania]

Looks like the reason that there are so few, Toaki STs in the 90s and 2000s is because they are hiding in plain sight, they are called Fenders....

I am thinking that Tokai made guitars for Fender for a much longer period than anyone has been suggesting.

It could be as much as two decades...

Not sure how I feel about this.

I understand that there were definitely secrecy agreements with OEMs, but it's been over 10 years now.

Can anyone with knowledge shed any light on this at all at this point? 8)

 

[Sigmania]

Note that in retrospect this does not seem to be a complete answer by Mr. Adachi, and he was likely protecting information per contractual agreements...

2005 Tokai President Interview

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4434

Q4: Since when does Tokai Gakki produce Fender Japan guitars, and will this cooperation continue? Do you make all available models in Japan, or are there some models that you outsource to your or other Korean partners?

A4: We started to make guitars for Fender Japan 8 years ago (1996/1997). All of the guitars are made in our factory, Japan. One other factory, Daita Gakki (translation misprint should be Dyna Gakki), is making guitars for Fender Japan. So we do not make some of the models of Fender Japan. They export some of them. But we do not.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9398

 

[Sigmania]

...When I toured the factory back in 2002 I was handle a Fender Jazz Bass by Adachi-san, I remember it very neat. Great memories!. Since that I have recomended friends to get Fender Japan instruments as far as it was very difficult to get a new Tokai strat replica.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9398

 

[Sigmania]

Don't know if its right,but anybody post the Tokai made Fender serials.

A + 6桁の数字 1997-1998
Crafted in Japan

N + 5桁の数字 1995 - 1996
Crafted in Japan

O0 + 5桁の数字 1997 - 2000
Crfated in Japan

P0 + 5桁の数字 1999 - 2002
Crafted in Japan

Q0 + 5桁の数字 2002 - 2004
Crafted in Japan

R0+ 5桁の数字 2004 -2006
Crafted in Japan

S0+ 5桁の数字 2006-2007
Crafted in Japan


Volker

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9398

 

[Sigmania]

What settebello posted lines up with what I suspect...

That is that Tokai made Fenders over decades....

Those serial numbers span the years 1995-2007 and I suspect there were more on each end... 8)

I found an N+6 "Made In Japan" serial number above which is 1993/94, so that would make the range 1993-2007 at least.

 

[Sigmania]

Not sure if this is accurate, but it's interesting. Good to file away.

Another slab board '62.



Strat 7alk forum.

Mar 19, 2021

N(U)GD CIJ Fender Stratocaster ST62-70TX (Tokai-Gakki)

L Tigh:

"....So it's a CIJ O-serial reserved for the Tokai-Gakki Fenders put out between 1997-2000, in a rare Ice Blue on Alder with mint green pickguard. Pups are Texas Specials as were stock on the Tokai-made TX models."

stratman323:

"Very interesting, but how do you know all that stuff about which FJ guitars were made by Tokai? And how do you know that "it's a CIJ O-serial reserved for the Tokai-Gakki Fenders put out between 1997-2000"

I wasn't aware that these details were publicly known due to the innate secrecy of the Japanese..."

LTigh:

"When you find it on a Japanese site in Japanese made for/marketed to Japanese people, they tend to be straightforward with details in ways that they wouldn't be with us filthy gaijin. The Japanese aren't "innately secretive," just insular. Don't expect the same sort of full disclosure on barbarian-tongue sites like Reverb or fleaBay, since that's where they go to bilk the dirty foreigners for fun and profit.

At least, that's what my Japanese colleagues have told me, and so far it's proven true based on my sampling size. They're the ones what informed me about the Tokai-made Fenders in the first place-- "guitars of which foreign hands are not worthy," as one of them so cheekily put it.

tl;dr: get you some trustworthy Japanese Guitar-Otaku friends-- they're quite knowledgeable and know where to get the best stuff for the best price".

 

[Sigmania]

Very interesting date stamped Tokai with no serial number that has a letter code similar to some of these fenders.

I noticed the Fender above starts with an "F" in the code, and the Toaki starts with a "T".....

'09.6.22
'09.6.29




Tokai AST Strat 2009 Japan , Lake Placid Blue | Reverb

 

[Sigmania]

1995 Fender (Japan) '57 Stratocaster Reissue ST57 Guitar w/ Gig Bag | eBay

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SN N043490

 

[Sigmania]

I found an R serial Fender that dates to the same period that I thought the all caps no serial Tokais date to with countersunk holes in the neck pocket.

Same weak ink impression as the all caps MADE IN JAPAN stamp on no serial Goldstars that are likely from the same period.



Help needed to identify a Tokai strat



Circa 2004-2005 R Serial CIJ Fender

Fender CIJ R serial 2004 information required

 

[Sigmania]

https://www.tokaiforum.com/threads/q-as-with-mr-shohei-adachi-president-of-tokai-gakki.4434/

2006 interview with Shohei Adachi:

Q4: Since when does Tokai Gakki produce Fender Japan guitars, and will this cooperation continue? Do you make all available models in Japan, or are there some models that you outsource to your or other Korean partners?


A4: We started to make guitars for Fender Japan 8 years ago. All of the guitars are made in our factory, Japan. One other factory, Daita Gakki, is making guitars for Fender Japan. So we do not make some of the models of Fender Japan. They export some of them. But we do not.

Fender buy out Tokai?

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks for your comments! One of my biggest surprises was that Tokai produces Fender Japan guitars since 1997 which probably isn't too well known around the Fuji Gen Gakki and Fender fan communities. 😉

 

[Sigmania]

Tokai MADE Fender Japan Custom Edition ST68-120SPL Astonishing Detmint 30,000 ye | eBay​

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Tokai MADE Fender Japan Custom Edition ST68-120SPL Astonishing Detmint 30,000 yen OFF​

​

Description:

New arrival product! !

Fender Japan Stratocaster by TOKAI MADE

For Tokai fans, we are posting in the TOKAI category.

TOKAI has been manufacturing high-precision ST and TL since before Fender Japan was established. From the middle of the 1980s, there was no choice but to shift to original model manufacturing, but with the increase in production of Fender Japan, it is a small part of FJ products as outsourced manufacturing. I have been manufacturing.

At Fender Japan, the craft section of EXTRAD Productions, which has been pursuing traditional vintage models since the 80's, and the Custom Edition Team, which is in charge of product planning and development R&D with USA Fender, created an original Telecaster in 1992, commemorating the 10th anniversary of Fender Japan. development sales. From the following year in 1993, new models that go beyond vintage specifications will be introduced as a custom edition series such as Robbenford Signature, BASSVI, and ST with race sensor PU.

This product is N serial made in 1993. In 1993, the ST68-120SPL was newly introduced as a 68-spec Strat in the Custom Edition lineup of the Fender Japan catalog.

Until this year, as a large head + 4 point stop 67 specification, tiger logo gold, Kluson specification peg

However, for the first time in ST68-120SPL in 1993 CBS logo black with WITH SYNCHRO Made by Schaller, F-key peg.

However, for some reason, it disappeared from the custom edition frame in the catalog from 1994 the following year, and returned to the regular specification as the former 67 specification.

A few years later, it will be revived as the 68TX and will be a standard lineup, but as a Custom Edition it will only be for this year, and it is very interesting that one part of this prototype product was manufactured by TOKAI.

The 1st period from 1982 to 1997 was led by Mr. Fender Japan Fujigen, and it is easy to understand the later 2nd and 3rd periods, but in recent years, the 1st period TOKAI manufacturing, which has been re-evaluated, is particularly important.

Other than that, the specifications are:

MAPLE CAP pasted maple neck,
Alder BODY,
USA-made ST-VINTAGE pickup,
Schaller F-key peg,
steel block bridge
ーーーーーーーーーー

I have experience playing the ST68-120SPL, the same product manufactured by Fujigen, but this product is in the stage of raw sound, and it has a clearly recognizable sound as a TOKAI guitar. I felt it and grinned unintentionally.

Also, the fact that this product is 68 instead of 69 is even more interesting. Lacquer coating has been adopted for this individual as well.

Tokai's woodwork, paint, and total precision quality are output by Fender USA pickups.
I couldn't help but feel.

As for the one that arrived this time, it was made in 1993, so even though it is one that is 30 years old this year, it has remained in this condition! Keeping in a ridiculously happy time machine state (dead mint condition).

If you hold it up to the light and look carefully, you can see a few minor pieces of wear, but in recent years it has a brand new atmosphere, like a super-beautiful second-hand product or a new store trial product. , You can think of it as an image as it is in the photo.

By the way, as those who are familiar with it know, there are quite a few CustomEditions that do not have stickers on the back of the head in the early days, just like EXTRAD. Including exceptional circumstances such as external manufacturing

The essential condition of the instrument, the remaining frets and the remaining truss rod have plenty of room, the neck condition, the electrical system, everything is excellent Weight 3.36 kg and light weight.

When browsing on a PC, right-click on each photo Open in new tab You can see the photo in a large image

This is a very rare opportunity to play and own a Tokai Manufacturing ST as a Fender product in almost the same condition as when it was released.

This is a carefully selected individual that can be said to be difficult to find in the future with the same quality as it is released by a collector!

Don't miss this opportunity!

As soon as possible because of the settlement sale price!
ーーーーー
Accessories: Tremolo arm, Fender genuine GIG bag that was included at the time

There is no neck plate F stamp, but it is a genuine specification.

We will send you information such as interior photos to the purchaser.

We are looking forward to your questions and order requests from the Digimart form.

If you are in a hurry, please check stock first! ! 16:00-20:00
ーーーーー
Even mail order,,,
Super loan can be used by simple WEB input!
WEB form input specification
ーーーーー
color sunburst
Year of manufacture 1993
Body material Alder
fingerboard maple
Neck joint detachable bolt-on
neck material maple
Accessories Accessories Tremolo arm, Fender genuine GIG bag included

 

[Sigmania]

R Serial number CIJ ?

The weak ink stamp on these seems to correlate with the all caps MADE IN JAPAN on Tokais in this period.

Fender Japan 2004/2005 Black Stratocaster ST57-58US 57' Reissue - Tokai Factory | eBay