The Earliest Tokai Les Paul Reborn LPs 1978 ?

[D.K.]

LS80 8000353 in OS. Graceful LS with a (typical for very early LSs) two-piece neck, on the heavier side (4,3-ish)

 

[Omiewise65]

Beautiful example of a LS80 . Love those colours a lot ! Funny that such a high end guitar has got a 2 piece neck while my cheap LS50 is one piece .

 

[Sigmania]

The construction changed over time. Year to year. Sometimes month to month in these early days.

Beautiful very early example.

Thanks for posting!

Which pickups does it have? Assuming they are unmarked?

 

[D.K.]

IIRC reading it in one of many similar discussions, starting somewhere around 800600 the necks started to be one piece. The LC100 that used to belong to Villager is the earliest one-piece that I've seen a picture of.

 

[Sigmania]

I can't remember when it changed exactly but obviously they were learning and making changes almost constantly in those early days going all the way through 1982 at least.

I would assume the idea of a 2 piece neck was stability?

The other weird thing to me is that I found evidence that they were using CNC machines as early as 1979 I believe, maybe even earlier?

The lore on line has been that Fujigen were the first ones to use CNC machines to make guitars sometime around 1982 or so, but that is just completely wrong based on transaltions of catalogs that I have done.

CNC At Tokai?

 

[Sigmania]

List of earliest Tokai LPs:


8002749 Les Paul Reborn (Reverb)
8002163 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8002144 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (Registry)
8002131 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8002017 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8002006 Les Paull Reborn LS50 (ElectricJam)
8001990 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8001986 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8001946 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8001833 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8001749 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (Registry)
8001748 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (Reverb)
8001733 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (registry)
8001634 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (Registry)
8001628 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8001578 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8001549 Les Paul Reborn LS80 (Cliff)
8001526 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (Registry)
8001494 Les Paul Reborn (Reverb)
8001478 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8001443 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8001390 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (Superlead100)
8001383 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (frehley76)
8001207 Les Paul Reborn LS80 BS (eborej)
8001188 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8001168 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8001145 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8001063 Les Paul Reborn LS60OS (eBay)
8001058 Les Paul Reborn LS60 CS (Reverb)
8001050 Les Paul Reborn (eBay)
8001016 Les Paul Reborn LS80 (flomycel)
8001000 Les Paul Reborn LS80 (Guitarzandstuff)
8000868 Les Paul Reborn LS100 (Registry)
8000830 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8000801 Les Paul Reborn (eBay)
8000764 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8000671 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8000638 Les Paul Reborn LS100 (Cliff)
8000666 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8000588 Les Paul Reborn (reverb)
8000579 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (Registry)
8000529 Les Paul Reborn LS60OS (Reverb & Registry)
8000515 Les Paul Reborn (eBay)
8000496 ? LC100WR (Reverb)
8000482 Les Paul Reborn LS80OS (villager)
8000416 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8000414 Les Paul Reborn LS50CS (Cliff)
8000385 Les Paul Reborn (Reverb)
8000373 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (registry)
8000353 Les Paul Reborn LS80BS (D.K.)
8000349 Les Paul Reborn LS80 (yj-ampmaker)
8000325 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8000259 Les Paul Reborn LS60 CS (eBay)
8000232 Les Paul Reborn LS50GT (Reverb)
8000216 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8000191 Les Paul Reborn GT (Registry)
8000189 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8000101 (1979 catalog photo back of headstock)

 

[Sigmania]

I was told Tokai started LS series back in 1.978 by Adachi-san himself.He didn?t mention 1.977.

 

[Sigmania]

Yes, it would interesting indeed to find a 1977 model. The only mention of it and no pics are on Gottfried?s website: they would have launched LS50, 60, 80, 100 and LC100. If so there will be only very few for the earliest 1978 model I have found is 8000101 and it?s from the 1978 Tokai catalog
With visible 2P neck indeed. About these 2P necks: I have found these as a rule up the 600s, in between 700s and 1200s you can find both 1P and 2P regardless of model. I have seen a 8001214 LS100 with 2P neck.

I have received A LOT of info the past day and need some time to absorb it. With this came a 1979 9000202 serial LS60 with 2P neck. Any thoughts?
Leftover and returned Burny? I found a lot of Burny?s having 200 serials, including my former GT.

 

[bigbadjohn]

I have quite a few MIJ guitars ( Mann, Mansfield etc.) most have multiple-piece necks one has 4 pieces I read that they are actually stronger than a one-piece
look at the waste there would be making a CBS Fender headstock out of one piece.

 

[chuckyz2]

I have quite a few MIJ guitars ( Mann, Mansfield etc.) most have multiple-piece necks one has 4 pieces I read that they are actually stronger than a one-piece
look at the waste there would be making a CBS Fender headstock out of one piece.

I have 4 Fenders and they are all 1 piece necks. All are Maple which is very strong wood. I think it is a waist to make a multipiece neck, especially considering the whole idea is to replicate the guitars from the golden era. Tokai supposedly dissected a Burst or two and had the goal of replicating them as precise as possible. The fact they made 2 piece necks in the beginning seems odd. Did the stamped serials get 2 piece also or was it just the inkies?

 

[uberhen]

Hi all,

Here's my 1978 LS50, serial 8000225. Needed a bit of work when I got it last year, but it's really a great axe.

1. Frets were trashed. Horizontal gouging from the string windings, deep divots all over, and someone used a tighter radius sanding beam to level them. I pulled them and refretted with Jescar 47104. Leveled and crowned, polished with micro mesh.
2. Circuit board controls were shot; only the bridge tone knob worked. Found and bought a replacement circuit board from a 1983 LS100 on Reverb, but I decided to pull everything and go standard 50's wiring instead.
3. The nut had the third string slot filled with some kind of powder and superglue to raise the string, but it was still binding a lot. I fitted a TUSQ XL nut to replace it.
4. Machine heads worked ok, but more for string-changing ease than function, I put in some locking Gotohs that dropped right in with no modification.
5. I changed out the pickups and bridge. Black Cat repro PAFs and Faber locking bridge. More for taste and wanting to try out a Faber bridge finally.
6. Pretty noticeable finish clouding on the headstock, but I can't do anything about that I suppose.
7. Came with a non-original truss rod cover, and a similar-vintage Burny case, strangely enough.

Pics:



Finish clouding and "50" stamped at fretboard end:


Now the ugly. Speaking of two-piece necks, the finish had started chipping away at the joint. Finish work is something I am not well-versed in, so I'm leaving it as is for the moment:

 

[Sigmania]

List of earliest Tokai LPs:

8002749 Les Paul Reborn (Reverb)
8002163 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8002144 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (Registry)
8002131 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8002017 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8002006 Les Paull Reborn LS50 (ElectricJam)
8001990 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8001986 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8001946 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8001833 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8001749 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (Registry)
8001748 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (Reverb)
8001733 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (registry)
8001634 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (Registry)
8001628 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8001578 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8001549 Les Paul Reborn LS80 (Cliff)
8001526 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (Registry)
8001494 Les Paul Reborn (Reverb)
8001478 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8001443 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8001390 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (Superlead100)
8001383 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (frehley76)
8001207 Les Paul Reborn LS80 BS (eborej)
8001188 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8001168 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8001145 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8001063 Les Paul Reborn LS60OS (eBay)
8001058 Les Paul Reborn LS60 CS (Reverb)
8001050 Les Paul Reborn (eBay)
8001016 Les Paul Reborn LS80 (flomycel)
8001000 Les Paul Reborn LS80 (Guitarzandstuff)
8000868 Les Paul Reborn LS100 (Registry)
8000830 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8000801 Les Paul Reborn (eBay)
8000764 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8000671 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8000638 Les Paul Reborn LS100 (Cliff)
8000666 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8000588 Les Paul Reborn (reverb)
8000579 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (Registry)
8000529 Les Paul Reborn LS60OS (Reverb & Registry)
8000515 Les Paul Reborn (eBay)
8000496 ? LC100WR (Reverb)
8000482 Les Paul Reborn LS80OS (villager)
8000416 Les Paul Reborn (Registry)
8000414 Les Paul Reborn LS50CS (Cliff)
8000385 Les Paul Reborn (Reverb)
8000373 Les Paul Reborn LS60 (registry)
8000353 Les Paul Reborn LS80BS (D.K.)
8000349 Les Paul Reborn LS80 (yj-ampmaker)
8000325 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8000259 Les Paul Reborn LS60 CS (eBay)
8000232 Les Paul Reborn LS50GT (Reverb)
8000225 Les Paul Reborn LS50OS (Uberhen)
8000216 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8000191 Les Paul Reborn GT (Registry)
8000189 Les Paul Reborn LS50 (Registry)
8000101 (1979 catalog photo back of headstock)

 

[Sigmania]

Hi all,

Here's my 1978 LS50, serial 8000225. Needed a bit of work when I got it last year, but it's really a great axe.

1. Frets were trashed. Horizontal gouging from the string windings, deep divots all over, and someone used a tighter radius sanding beam to level them. I pulled them and refretted with Jescar 47104. Leveled and crowned, polished with micro mesh.
2. Circuit board controls were shot; only the bridge tone knob worked. Found and bought a replacement circuit board from a 1983 LS100 on Reverb, but I decided to pull everything and go standard 50's wiring instead.
3. The nut had the third string slot filled with some kind of powder and superglue to raise the string, but it was still binding a lot. I fitted a TUSQ XL nut to replace it.
4. Machine heads worked ok, but more for string-changing ease than function, I put in some locking Gotohs that dropped right in with no modification.
5. I changed out the pickups and bridge. Black Cat repro PAFs and Faber locking bridge. More for taste and wanting to try out a Faber bridge finally.
6. Pretty noticeable finish clouding on the headstock, but I can't do anything about that I suppose.
7. Came with a non-original truss rod cover, and a similar-vintage Burny case, strangely enough.

Pics:

View attachment 9919 View attachment 9918

Finish clouding and "50" stamped at fretboard end:
View attachment 9921 View attachment 9922

Now the ugly. Speaking of two-piece necks, the finish had started chipping away at the joint. Finish work is something I am not well-versed in, so I'm leaving it as is for the moment:

View attachment 9931

That's really cool. Congratulations!

Can you tell me how the serial number was put on there?

Is it impressed into the wood/finish or is it inked?

It's always been hard to tell in pictures.

 

[uberhen]

Thanks! It is a little hard to tell, you're right. Some of the digits are sunken into the wood a little, and it bends the light in these spots. I took a few pics just now that kind of show it. Really noticeable on the first "2":

 

[Sigmania]

I have wondered if it was impressed and the finish went down into the raw wood and looks darker. But its a lot darker.

Still a bit of a mystery.

Could it be impressed and inked? Not sure how they would do that though.

 

[uberhen]

I really couldn't say, sorry. Though from the pics, the "2" that seems to be deeper than the other numbers is also the darkest digit. Perhaps that indicates impression rather than inking, with more finish able to go down into the wood?

Here is one more pic that shows the faint impressions of the zeroes compared that deep 2. The flashlight completely washes out the "ink," but you're still able to see the reflections of the impressions:



Edit: You know, after looking at other examples of the serial numbers, I'm not sure anymore. Maybe the number punches were pressed against an ink pad? Without ink, would finish pooling into the impressions really make them that dark?

 

[Sigmania]

Glad I’m not the only one that found it puzzling.

I really appreciate you going through all that trouble.

The pic of the back of the neck showing the scraped off poly really looks like the finish has a color in with it? Or am I imagining that?

That could explain it like you suggested.

 

[uberhen]

No trouble at all, I rarely get to nerd out on guitars with anyone IRL haha. I just hope I'm not taking too much attention from this thread. If you want we can continue through PMs

I think there is a tint added to the finish. Here's a closer pic of the chipping, with illumination from a sideways angle:

 

[Sigmania]

Yep. I bet you’re right. The deeper spots where the numbers are stamped are thicker and there’s more pigment. Possible explanation. But it’s still very dark. Maybe someone else knows?

 

[FrankiePags12]

Congratulations, beautiful cherry sunburst. I especially like when the cherry burst has very soft or no edges. Enjoy.