New to the guitar Tokai world

[user 14174]

I just acquired a Tokai Silverstar ss 36 from 1981 on Reverb, and I received my guitar today and am having some issues. The bridge/tremolo was not straight and instead, it was forming an angle with the guitar maybe around 35 degrees. the strings were very poorly put on, so I changed the strings and tightened the springs quite a lot it seemed to have helped, although it is far from perfect. I also tried to adjust the 6 screws on the bridge following a video on youtube, but it doesn't seem to be working. I don't know what to think of my purchase, I am a little disappointed, I must say, it doesn't fit the description from the seller I was initially trying to buy a Japanese strat, and then remembered Tokai and changed my mind The action on the Tokai is quite high and I can't figure out how to lower it. Also, the guitar electronics are noisy, I wonder if it needs to be rewired. would you be able to give me some tips, please?

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

Congrats on your new old guitar! If you buy a 42 years old guitar sight unseen, all kinds of problems are to be expected and the first of them being the seller lying his head off about the guitar's condition. Doing this without any experience in fixing problems is kind of risky, but on the bright side you bought a guitar that is quite likely having a good substance to restore to its old glory.

Depending on string gauge, you may need more springs to get the vibrato less floaty, the 6 anchor screws are not meant for this. High action is a more complex matter depending on neck angle, truss rod relief and bridge setup.

There are 2 ways to go:

1. take the occasion to learn all about basic guitar setup and maintenance, possibly watching several hours of videos on the topic on YouTube (as you may have just experienced, watching only one may put you on a wrong track) and reading several of the blog articles about that. It's not a super-rare or valuable instrument and you can use it to learn valuable new skills. It's not rocket science but it would be quite tedious and redundant to reiterate all of it here, sorry.

2. take it to a luthier/tech for a proper inspection and setup. It will cost you a few bucks but will give you fast results, helps a man eating food and he will (hopefully) do the job better than you could do on your first attempts.

 

[user 14174]

Congrats on your new old guitar! If you buy a 42 years old guitar sight unseen, all kinds of problems are to be expected and the first of them being the seller lying his head off about the guitar's condition. Doing this without any experience in fixing problems is kind of risky, but on the bright side you bought a guitar that is quite likely having a good substance to restore to its old glory.

Depending on string gauge, you may need more springs to get the vibrato less floaty, the 6 anchor screws are not meant for this. High action is a more complex matter depending on neck angle, truss rod relief and bridge setup.

There are 2 ways to go:

1. take the occasion to learn all about basic guitar setup and maintenance, possibly watching several hours of videos on the topic on YouTube (as you may have just experienced, watching only one may put you on a wrong track) and reading several of the blog articles about that. It's not a super-rare or valuable instrument and you can use it to learn valuable new skills. It's not rocket science but it would be quite tedious and redundant to reiterate all of it here, sorry.

2. take it to a luthier/tech for a proper inspection and setup. It will cost you a few bucks but will give you fast results, helps a man eating food and he will (hopefully) do the job better than you could do on your first attempts.

Thank you, Homer, I have had guitars since I was 14/15 years old. I started with a lower-end Ibanez with a floyd at the time. and made my way to many guitars I am 49. I had two Strats in my hands a few years ago:
Once I sold one and the other, I returned to the guitar center I bought it from. The first one with a Billy Corgan Special Edition ( I miss it) but my most regretted instrument was the other one, a Japanese Strat from 1989/1991 I had looked up the serial number, I felt bad about spending the money at the time, it had a Seymour Duncan Bridge Humbucker.
Now I thought by acquiring a Tokai I would rediscover the same feeling.
The seller had described it "The neck is straight with low n' quick action but most importantly feels like true love in your hands. The electronics are functioning and the single coils deliver all the springy, stratty deliciousness you can ask for." I can't agree and was misled by him. The strings were not even put on the right way like they were super loose. I just detuned the guitar to relieve the pressure on the neck, so as you can see in the pics the vibrato is flushed to the body now.
I am ready to give this guitar a try because of the reputation of the Tokai guitars, I will take it to either the local guitar store near me in PA or I guess Guitar Center for a tune-up/Setup, I don't have a luthier near me, around Scranton.
a few questions:
1. as you can see the High E metal saddle is not straight, but pulling inward toward the B saddle, does it mean that this guitar needs a new bridge or just adjustment?
2. There are 3 springs underneath the body holding the bridge/ vibrato should I replace them and use 4 instead of 3 (I use thicker gauge guitar strings than the one that came with it, usually E.B. heavy top skinny bottom)?
3. Do you feel this is an aberration, to be willing to replace the bridge pickup with a Humbucker? I saw some Tokai pick-ups for sale on Reverb, but I think it might be risky to buy it if it is not properly working and the output might not be strong enough for heavy distortion compared to a new pickup brand.
4. The frets are okay but certainly used, do you guys rer-fret yours at some points on your vintage Tokai?
Thank you so much I appreciate all your answers

 

[Sigmania]

The action looks high. Take it to a luthier. I avoid mega stores like Guitar Center. I recommend finding a smaller guitar shop with an owner you can talk to that is interested in your business. My two cents.

The guitar you got is the least expensive one they made at the time. The hardware is not the best but should be adequate. You just need to hand it off to someone that can set it up properly. I recommend you do that first before you start changing parts.

 

[Sigmania]

1981 catalog specs

Looks like the painted SS36 guitars were alder or basswood/linden.

 

[guitar hiro]

@tomer624 Strats are a different animal with the tremolo springs, claw, truss rod, neck angle, etc.

make sure your truss rod is functioning; rotating/adjustable both directions.
If that checks out then it should be just an issue of getting your tremolo set-up to your liking with the number (I use 3) of springs you prefer and getting the block plate angle where you like it.
Once you get to that point then you can set your saddles for intonation.

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

1. as you can see the High E metal saddle is not straight, but pulling inward toward the B saddle, does it mean that this guitar needs a new bridge or just adjustment?
2. There are 3 springs underneath the body holding the bridge/ vibrato should I replace them and use 4 instead of 3 (I use thicker gauge guitar strings than the one that came with it, usually E.B. heavy top skinny bottom)?
3. Do you feel this is an aberration, to be willing to replace the bridge pickup with a Humbucker? I saw some Tokai pick-ups for sale on Reverb, but I think it might be risky to buy it if it is not properly working and the output might not be strong enough for heavy distortion compared to a new pickup brand.
4. The frets are okay but certainly used, do you guys rer-fret yours at some points on your vintage Tokai?
Thank you so much I appreciate all your answers

1. Educated adjustment will suffice

2. Replacing is not needed, if you need more springs depends on how (and if) you want to use the vibrato, some just want to bend down, some don't want to use it at all (5 springs, bridge "decked"), some want it "floating"...

3. A high output humbucker in single-coil format would save you(r tech) the woodwork. Again, get the playability right before you invest in new parts

4. The frets look like they were never leveled before, so there should be enough "meat" left to just have them leveled, recrowned and polished. The pitting looks mild on the pic but the frets could benefit from such a fret job in that it makes sure it can be setup for maximum comfort / lowest action.

 

[Sigmania]

Could also be that the screws mounting the tremolo are too tight and are fighting against your springs.

 

[guitar hiro]

this thread reminds me of when I got my first Strat at age twenty; ****, I'm old.

it took me a while to figure out all of the 'stuff' that makes a Strat a Strat; it don't happen over night.

Patience is required ........

 

[guitar hiro]

Could also be that the screws mounting the tremolo are too tight and are fighting against your springs.

yeppers; could be that.

I snug mine so, that the flat underside of the screws are flush with the top surface of the block plate and then back them all off 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Pretty simple stuff, of course after you learn what a Strat is all about .......

 

[Sigmania]

Yep. I love Strats mostly because the way they fit your body and of course the weight. I actually rarely use a tremolo. But there is a reason Tokai picked the term Springy Sounds. Very different beast than a Lester.

 

[user 14174]

1. Educated adjustment will suffice

2. Replacing is not needed, if you need more springs depends on how (and if) you want to use the vibrato, some just want to bend down, some don't want to use it at all (5 springs, bridge "decked"), some want it "floating"...

3. A high output humbucker in single-coil format would save you(r tech) the woodwork. Again, get the playability right before you invest in new parts

4. The frets look like they were never leveled before, so there should be enough "meat" left to just have them leveled, recrowned and polished. The pitting looks mild on the pic but the frets could benefit from such a fret job in that it makes sure it can be setup for maximum comfort / lowest action.

I took the Tokai to my local guitar store, in the closest small town and the owner seems to have a lot of experience with guitars. He is an older guy and he is going to set up the guitar for me. He said the neck of the guitar was not straight, and the problems were also with the tremolo/bridge, the guitar doesn't stay in tune, so he will have to take the guitar apart and rebuild it. The electronic is fine so are the coils no buzzing sound at his workstation, maybe my amp is a Marshall tube amp DSL 40C or it could be the ground at my house I tried two cables they were both giving buzzing parasite sounds. He also discouraged me from changing anything on the guitar, as the Tokai would loose its value, he said the bridge was not the original, can you tell from the pictures?

 

[Sigmania]

Bridge seems original from a distance. Those poured saddles were a cost saver on the less expensive models. The next level up use stamped chrome plated steel ones. The level above that use high mass brass saddles. The saddles are part of the tone chain. You could switch them easily.

And the buzzing could be a bad patch cord or speaker cable. Try a different patch cord and see if that does it.