Cats Eyes CE-1000 - Any ideas what the back wood could be?

[mk-zwo]

Hi friends,
I just imported a CE-1000 from Japan. Any idea what kind of wood this could be?

Regards Michael

 

[Sigmania]

Can you share more information and pictures? I’m trying to figure out when and where it was made.

Initially I would guess Indian rosewood.

Thanks.

 

[mk-zwo]

The re-seller says it is from around 1980 and made in Japan for sure. More pictures. No problem.

 

[Sigmania]

Ahhh. That’s one of these with the odd torch inlay.

 

[mk-zwo]

One of these? Odd? Seems you are not very familiar with the Tokai Cats Eyes series. Since all full solid "upper class" models (CE-1000 and all upwards models) contain this kind of torch inlay.

 

[Sigmania]

One of these? Odd? Seems you are not very familiar with the Tokai Cats Eyes series. Since all full solid "upper class" models (CE-1000 and all upwards models) contain this kind of torch inlay.

You’re wrong and a bit rude tbh.

Look at this thread if you want to learn something.

 

[Sigmania]

The one on that guitar is very crude and only appears on CE1000 and 1200 within the date range I shared in the other thread.

 

[Sigmania]

And I can almost guarantee it’s not from 1980 as you are stating. Latest ones I’ve seen with this inlay were made in 1978.

 

[Sigmania]

I can also tell you that it was made at the Terajima facility and signed by R. Yamauchi on the label



which tells me it was definitely made before 1980. Likely 1975-1977. Serial number will confirm.

The label will look like this one.

 

[mk-zwo]

Oh nice, thanks! That is really interresting! I can confirm that later, because right now the guitar is at the luthier.
The guitar is pretty old indeed and needed some serious caretaking...
Is there any special knowledge about the Cat's Eyes from that time area? Are there goods and bads or something?

 

[Sigmania]

I would bet that it has solid Indian rosewood back and sides. You can confirm when you have it in hand by whether the grain matches up inside and out.



During this period Tokai served as Martin Japan and did their sales, service and repairs. They were trained by the folks at Martin.

I have no idea why those two models (CE1000 & 1200) had a different torch inlay in this period. I doubt you will find anyone who can explain it unless they were working for Tokai at the Terajima facility. It may remain a mystery.

 

[Sigmania]

Here is another one. It looks like it may have a scarf joint on the headstock.

1976 CE1000

SN 364676 ??

View attachment 82097

This has a scarf joint!

View attachment 82084View attachment 82085View attachment 82083


Tokai Cat's Eyes 1976 CE-1000 D-28 spec ★All Solid ★ with Original Blue-Hardcase

View attachment 82082
View attachment 82096
View attachment 82098
View attachment 82081

 

[mk-zwo]

Oh, thanks! Would you say there is a big difference between the torch inlays of the CE-1000 Series before 1980? I think they all have a more basic, minimalistic design compared to the even upper series like CE-2000. The only major change I recognize so far is that, at one point in the later models (80's up) the inlay turned a little more detailed but also a lot smaller...

 

[Sigmania]

It’s not clear cut to me. The change was not on all models at the same time.

I look at the shape of the bell flowers. The change is towards them being narrower and not flaring out.





I have seen this narrower shape as early as 1978 but the more elaborate flared shape persists on some models to at least 1981.

I have to wonder if the difference is between the ones made in house and inserted piece by piece as opposed to ones assembled by a contractor. But that’s a guess.

 

[mk-zwo]

Sure the upper picture is a CE-1000 inlay. It looks more like the kinds I know from CE-1500 upwards?

 

[mk-zwo]

When I search for CE-1000 I mainly find this pattern:

Seems to be the most common pattern for CE-1000

Except the 1980 upwards models, which have the different & smaller one:



And I found one guitar claimed to be from 1971, which looks mor like the 1980's pattern:


I could not say I like the one or the other more. I think the big one looks a little bit more hand made and less industrial. Which some people might like...
But for sure the inlays of some of the CE-2000 series or special editions are awesome. But that is a different story...

 

[Sigmania]

Don’t believe everything you read or what sellers claim. I see misinformation every day being shared online.

There were no Cats Eyes guitars in 1971. They began in 1975.

And as far as the inlays go, as I said in the beginning the inlay like the one in the guitar you bought is very atypical. They only occurred on CE1000 and 1200 between 1975 and 1977/78. All of them so far were signed by Mr. Yamauchi.

If you want to look at more examples for comparison, have a look through this list and see if you spot a pattern. I can’t look right now.

CE400 Cat’s Eyes - Scarf Joint - Terajima ?
CE500 Cat’s Eyes - Diamond Volute - Scarf Joint
CE500CF Cat’s Eyes - Diamond Volute - No Scarf Joint
CE600 Cat’s Eyes - 2 Piece Back
CE600CF Cat’s Eyes - 3 Piece Back
CE600TW Cat’s Eyes - 12 String
CE800 Cat’s Eyes - 2 Piece Back
CE800 Cat’s Eyes - 3 Piece Back
CE800T Cat’s Eyes - 000 Size
CE1000 Cat’s Eyes
CE1000D Cat’s Eyes
CE1000S Clarence White Model
CE1200 Cat’s Eyes
CE1200CF Cat’s Eyes
CE1200D Cat’s Eyes
CE1200M Cat’s Eyes
CE1200S Cat’s Eyes - 000 Size
CE1200T Cat’s Eyes - 000 Size
CE1200TW Cat's Eyes - 12 String
CE1300CF Cat’s Eyes - All Solid Woods
CE1500 Cat’s Eyes
CE2000 Cat’s Eyes
CE2000S Cat's Eyes - 000 Size
CE2000T Cat’s Eyes - 000 Size
CE2500 Cat's Eyes
CE2500T Cat's Eyes - 000 Size
CE3000 Cat's Eyes

 

[mk-zwo]

As far as I can see, it is way more simple:
For the base premium models (CE-1000/1200) there are only two patterns. Gen1 Pattern (from around 1975) Gen2 Pattern (from around 1980).
This video shows it quite well:

 

[luis]

In order to help you correctly please tell us serial number you will find into the soudbox. I owned two CE-1000s (vintage style model) and got a great one still.... Tokai made three versions of their acoustics since 1975 (Pre-war, vintage (I guess second era) and modern 70s Martin. Everyone has its own.

CE-1000 real model has Indian rosewood.

Regards,
Luis.

 

[mk-zwo]

Thank you Luis!
I will share the serial number asap. Right now the guitar is at the luthier shop. It will be next week I guess...