1982 ST120

[Sigmania]

Here is an early ST100 from 1978 without a flamed neck, but it does have gold hardware.

Photos courtesy of fellow member Gottfried at FaberGuitars.

https://www.faberguitar.com/navi.php?a=3394&lang=eng

 

[siamackz]

Here is an early ST100 from 1978 without a flamed neck, but it does have gold hardware.

Photos courtesy of fellow member Gottfried at FaberGuitars.

https://www.faberguitar.com/navi.php?a=3394&lang=eng

A surprising inconsistency from Tokai when their literature seems to be quite explicit about attention to detail (and it even explicitly mentions that the ST-100 has a flamed neck).

 

[Sigmania]

A surprising inconsistency from Tokai when their literature seems to be quite explicit about attention to detail (and it even explicitly mentions that the ST-100 has a flamed neck).

Welcome to the wonderful and often mysterious world of Tokai guitars...

That was kind of the point of this thread which was about the ST120. It had arguably lower spec than the ST100. Multi piece body. However I believe the pieces were selected by the buyer, so it was a custom build.

I’m only seeing one example so hard to know what all made an ST120 different.

 

[guitar hiro]

Agreed, my ST100 is one piece ash.

I guess it’s what the original spec by Fender was in the 50s? Two piece body?

Or do you think a body was possibly mated later with that neck?

Marker line through code in neck pickup cavity.

Handwritten codes. I haven’t seen another custom build like an LS200 so I don’t know what is normal.

Generally I don't believe pre CBS Fender guitars had a body spec for number of pieces.
Actually the number of pieces that comprised the body was likely the least consistent of items.
Bodies were made with 1, 2, and 3 pieces of lumber; it was typically a random issue.

I have seen a few 1 piece bodies and one in particular; a very rare 1 piece spruce body Strat previously owned by a very well known Austin, TX guitarist.

 

[Sigmania]

Good point. My understanding was that Leo used what was available and the whole issue of a one piece being better came from the Japanese builders who paid more attention to this stuff than Fender did. 8)

 

[guitar hiro]

I would agree with your statement.
Leo wanted to make as many guitars as possible and to sell as many guitars as possible.
Back in that time frame most folks were not concerned with minutia such as number of body pieces, etc.

 

[siamackz]

The only difference in the comparison chart further on in the catalogue is that the ST-120 neck was “curly maple” vs “maple” in the ST-100. However, the catalogue also mentions “about custom-made guitars: for guitarists who insist on their individuality, the Tokai Electric Guitar Project Team manufactures custom-made guitars for the following items. Please note that the price will vary depending on the custom order, but will be 20% or more of the basic model price. Custom-made guitars are limited to Tokai electric guitars that cost 80,000 yen or more”. And the catalogue also mentions that the ST-120 was a fully made-to-order model. So, maybe the ST-120 was essentially 20% higher in price than the ST-100 because it was a custom guitar, butnot necessarily higher spec?

 

[Sigmania]

Yep. That's what I was saying above.

….However I believe the pieces were selected by the buyer, so it was a custom build.

 

[Sigmania]

And here:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26154

Lots of curveballs.

 

[Sigmania]

And here from that thread:

From the 1979 Cat’s Eyes catalog

Your special order is acceptable:

Order-Made Guitars to match your individuality.

At Tokai Gakki, we also manufacture special orders such as position marks: bindings, inlays, etc. in response to the wishes of those who value individuality.

★ We accept orders for Cat's Eye models over 100,000 yen.
★ The price varies depending on the specifications of your order, but it is based on a 20% increase in the retail price.
★ Delivery will be approximately 4 months after receiving the order.
★ For the left hand, we will accept a 20% increase in the retail price of all models.

 

[Sigmania]

The only difference in the comparison chart further on in the catalogue is that the ST-120 neck was “curly maple” vs “maple” in the ST-100.

The word tramoku for the necks on the ST100 means flamed. So the ST100 is spec’d as having a flamed neck as early as 1979.

8) toramoku means the tiger pattern grains. tora means tiger and moku means grains. so toramoku is a tiger pattern grain wood. the flamed maple usually.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26109&hilit=tramoku&start=15

 

[Sigmania]

By the time this catalog came out, the ST100 is spec'd with a flame (tramoku) neck.

● ST-100 The body is a sen dress that has been carefully placed. The maple neck has a perfect "tramoku" (horizontal grain like a tiger's sima). The colors are BL, N. Half 100,000.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26086&start=30

 

[wulfman]

Here "TORA MOKU" is the correct word, with TORA meaning Tiger.
https://solidwood.jp/solidwood/slab/type/woodgrain/toramoku

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks. I used Google translate and the translations seem to be phonetic, so tora moku comes through as tramoku.

As far as I can tell, the ST120 was customer selected/custom wood choices. But the ST120 in this thread that Cliff got is the only one I’ve seen.

 

[siamackz]

By the time this catalog came out, the ST100 is spec'd with a flame (tramoku) neck.

● ST-100 The body is a sen dress that has been carefully placed. The maple neck has a perfect "tramoku" (horizontal grain like a tiger's sima). The colors are BL, N. Half 100,000.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26086&start=30

Correct this refers to the tiger stripe. But I was talking about the 1982 catalogues - if you scroll to the tables at the ends that show differences between models and if you translate the first column for 120V and 100v you will see that the 120 shows “curly maple” vs “maple” for the 100. Everything else in the table is the same between the two.

Thinking more about it, the ST 120 examples that we have seen (with stickers or imprints of “120”) on them must have been proper production models. They wouldn’t stamp/sticker “120” on a custom model - that wouldn’t make sense especially since because the custom was just a st 80 or 100 at 20% more cost. Maybe when they introduced the 120 they gave it the flamed neck exclusively ie 1982, but before it the flamed neck was found on the 100 too, except mine of course as luck has it lol

 

[Sigmania]

Ok. Would you show me another ST120? I haven’t seen one.

And in 1982, what then differentiates an ST80 from an ST100?

 

[Sigmania]

Here’s what I translated from the 1982 spring catalog:

1954 MODEL ST100GS ¥ 100000 1954 MODEL ST120-GS ¥ 120,000 The finest professional model ST100 & 120 that represents the ST series that appeared in the new specs. Mount the new pickup VS-1 that DiMarzio expects, and develop an all-round springy sound with long sustain and high-grade sound as you like. High-grade specifications with carefully selected alder body and maple 1-piece neck. (ST120 is a completely made-to-order special model with a flamed maple neck.)


Come to think of it, I’m not sure I’ve seen a 1982 ST100 either. Hmmm. I guess the product line shifted by then? Apples and oranges.

I guess I would compare this 1982 ST120 favorably with my 1979 ST100 and the 1978 felixcatus owns.

 

[Sigmania]

I just saw this:

The spec sheet for the ST-120 in 1982 says that it came with either a one-piece sen ash body or a two-piece alder body. So maybe the "136" is for a one piece alder upgrade? Since the ST-120 was a special order model, it would be pretty reasonable to think that you could have ordered it with nickel hardware and upgraded woods.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24894

Is this what you got in your translation? I haven't looked at the 1982 chart yet.

 

[Sigmania]

The only other ST-120 I've seen, owned by Buduranus2:

Interesting guitar. Looks like one piece alder (?), gold hardware. Can't tell from that one picture if it is an ST100 or ST120. I’m not seeing flame on the neck.


http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24894

 

[Sigmania]

Has anyone got an ST 120? I've never seen one and am interested in seeing what they are like and what you think of them. They seem to be rarer than LS200s! Cheers.

Here's my ST-120. I bought it used in about 1980. It's a V-neck model with a one-piece body, staggered magnet pickups and gold-plated parts. Interestingly, it has a "soft" 5-position switch (the in-between detents aren't as pronounced.) Three-digit serial number, not counting the zeroes. Sounds like an old Strat, and probably better built than most Fenders. Needless to say, it's not for sale.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11875&start=15