1978 SE-500W?
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moose
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The listing states that the pickups are PU-100 and that the body is Agathis, but I suspect that those details may have just been pulled from the catalog/their own research. How could they discern the wood type on a painted body?
Here are a few more detail pics, in case the tuners or headstock label have any bearing.
The 800 series did not come in white in '78, according to the catalog.
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I suspect that the neck and body are simply from different guitars. But it's definitely not clear cut, and there are several layers of non-obvious odd going on here, as often with Greco Fender copies.
Like you said, the 800 had a pre-CBS headstock in 1978. That feature came in on 600s in 1979, and so would have been present on a Nov-Dec 1978 guitar of that model, but that one is April. And anyway, the MH803 diamond tuners are a 1977 SE800 feature, the '78 version having the Kluson-style SD81-05Ms. Like you said, a rosewood fretboard neck was not an SE800 catalog option... which doesn't mean that none were made. 50's style guitars with rosewood boards is one of the more common Greco SE anomalies.
But there actually is one more possible source of a 1978 neck with a rosewood slab, pre-CBS headstock and MH803s: the SE500V, a 1978-only colour option (a stained violin burst). For some unfathomable reason, that specific model in that specific finish was paired with a pre-CBS headstock. All other SE500 variants had a large headstock, as did the V-finish version of the '78 SE600.
Yeah, go figure.
It's well hidden away, though. No pics, it's just mentioned in brackets in the colour options listing at the end of the specs for the SE500. According to Google Lens:
Gotta love "Old Head". Also note "Rose fingerboard". The catalog copy also specifies MH803 tuners.
This one's in my collection. Not counting the body finish, it's a pretty good fit with yours.
The only other catalog models I can think of with a small headstock and MH803s are three guitars (SE1200, -800 and -700) from the limited edition Project Series, but I can't recall ever seeing one of those with a rosewood fretboard (which doesn't mean etc...). And if the neck plate is original to the neck, it's not off a Project Series guitar, it would have had the model number engraved. Inconclusive, to say the least.
As for the body, that could well be from a 1978 SE500. Not many details to go on, but it looks like it has the narrow (around 10 mm) bridge saddles of that model and year, and the pickguard's correct as well. But if the latter is original, it's a bad fit with the neck.
For some strange reason, Greco never got the 1959 transition from single-ply 8 screw to laminated 11-screw guards right. Instead, they put single-ply 'guards on all models with pre-CBS headstocks and laminate guards on everything with CBS headstock (except, of course, the above-mentioned SE500V...). As far as I've seen, they kept this up right until Fender copy production ended in April 1982. So by and large, the body is a poor fit for the neck.
But (and here's the thing): even though a parts guitar is maybe the likeliest explanation, it's by no means certain. One of the things that make Grecos fun to be around is that they offered made-to-order builds to end-users and retailers from as early as 1972, ie what we would call a "custom shop" today. They could do anything from ground-up builds from client sketches to "minor change" jobs, in which standard features were combined in non-standard ways. Which could well be the case with this guitar.
But this can only be determined by forensic study or at least inside-out detail pics. Or at least possibly determined, I have a small menagerie of off-catalog Greco SE oddballs (I havent counted in a while but 15-20 or so?) and only a single one of them is clearly marked "Order Made". A lot of them are small batches made for distributors and/or retailers wanting something special to offer their customers and can sometimed be traced through store ads in old Japanese guitar mags. But these tend to be slightly more spectacular than this one (all-mahogany construction, bound fretboard, metallic finishes, Mustang-style racing stripes etc).
If the OP guitar is indeed a factory original, I would assume it's a single end-user order under the "minor change" scheme. However, to make absolutely sure about this is almost impossible. It could of course have some rare "order made" marking inside, but if all parts are Greco/MIJ and in period there is at least reason to suspect it. A good set of inside detail pics would help, original pots and pickguard should be date coded etc.
Either way, nice-looking guitar, and Greco SE necks are almost always excellent.
Like you said, the 800 had a pre-CBS headstock in 1978. That feature came in on 600s in 1979, and so would have been present on a Nov-Dec 1978 guitar of that model, but that one is April. And anyway, the MH803 diamond tuners are a 1977 SE800 feature, the '78 version having the Kluson-style SD81-05Ms. Like you said, a rosewood fretboard neck was not an SE800 catalog option... which doesn't mean that none were made. 50's style guitars with rosewood boards is one of the more common Greco SE anomalies.
But there actually is one more possible source of a 1978 neck with a rosewood slab, pre-CBS headstock and MH803s: the SE500V, a 1978-only colour option (a stained violin burst). For some unfathomable reason, that specific model in that specific finish was paired with a pre-CBS headstock. All other SE500 variants had a large headstock, as did the V-finish version of the '78 SE600.
Yeah, go figure.
It's well hidden away, though. No pics, it's just mentioned in brackets in the colour options listing at the end of the specs for the SE500. According to Google Lens:
Gotta love "Old Head". Also note "Rose fingerboard". The catalog copy also specifies MH803 tuners.
This one's in my collection. Not counting the body finish, it's a pretty good fit with yours.
The only other catalog models I can think of with a small headstock and MH803s are three guitars (SE1200, -800 and -700) from the limited edition Project Series, but I can't recall ever seeing one of those with a rosewood fretboard (which doesn't mean etc...). And if the neck plate is original to the neck, it's not off a Project Series guitar, it would have had the model number engraved. Inconclusive, to say the least.
As for the body, that could well be from a 1978 SE500. Not many details to go on, but it looks like it has the narrow (around 10 mm) bridge saddles of that model and year, and the pickguard's correct as well. But if the latter is original, it's a bad fit with the neck.
For some strange reason, Greco never got the 1959 transition from single-ply 8 screw to laminated 11-screw guards right. Instead, they put single-ply 'guards on all models with pre-CBS headstocks and laminate guards on everything with CBS headstock (except, of course, the above-mentioned SE500V...). As far as I've seen, they kept this up right until Fender copy production ended in April 1982. So by and large, the body is a poor fit for the neck.
But (and here's the thing): even though a parts guitar is maybe the likeliest explanation, it's by no means certain. One of the things that make Grecos fun to be around is that they offered made-to-order builds to end-users and retailers from as early as 1972, ie what we would call a "custom shop" today. They could do anything from ground-up builds from client sketches to "minor change" jobs, in which standard features were combined in non-standard ways. Which could well be the case with this guitar.
But this can only be determined by forensic study or at least inside-out detail pics. Or at least possibly determined, I have a small menagerie of off-catalog Greco SE oddballs (I havent counted in a while but 15-20 or so?) and only a single one of them is clearly marked "Order Made". A lot of them are small batches made for distributors and/or retailers wanting something special to offer their customers and can sometimed be traced through store ads in old Japanese guitar mags. But these tend to be slightly more spectacular than this one (all-mahogany construction, bound fretboard, metallic finishes, Mustang-style racing stripes etc).
If the OP guitar is indeed a factory original, I would assume it's a single end-user order under the "minor change" scheme. However, to make absolutely sure about this is almost impossible. It could of course have some rare "order made" marking inside, but if all parts are Greco/MIJ and in period there is at least reason to suspect it. A good set of inside detail pics would help, original pots and pickguard should be date coded etc.
Either way, nice-looking guitar, and Greco SE necks are almost always excellent.
moose
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@Voidoid56 -- I must say, after spending time lurking through these forums, my secret hope was that my post would conjure a response from you. You did not disappoint! What an awesome, thorough, and fun reply to wake up to! Thank you so much! Also, your 500V is stunning. I'm jealous.
Your thesis about the 500V neck makes sense. It looks like the '78 800s had skunk stripes, which the guitar in question does not. The Jeff Beck guitars of '79 had an "Old Head" sans stripe...
Anyhow, a Super Partscaster would not be my preferred outcome, so it'd be nice to know if this was a special order.
Wish I had more clues to go on. I've attached just a few more relevant pics, perhaps they could be helpful in id'ing the saddles. I also noticed a chip in the paint by the lower strap button.. doesn't reveal much grain, but maybe someone with an eagle eye can make something of it.
One other detail (and something that has made me interested in this guitar) is the seller's note on its weight - 3.2kg/7.05lbs. I love a light Strat, and many of the SEs I've checked out have looked awesome but clock in at upwards of 4kg/9lbs, sometimes pushing 10. From my reading, agathis is usually heavier than sen/alder. Is that generally correct? If so, 7lbs would seem quite svelte.
While I have you.....
I've come across the guitar below, listed as a '79 with no additional identification. Don't see any Super Sound Super Strats fit with humbuckers in any Greco catalog. Could these be special ordered or is it more likely that someone took a chisel to to her and did some routing of their own?
Thanks again for your amazing reply.2
Your thesis about the 500V neck makes sense. It looks like the '78 800s had skunk stripes, which the guitar in question does not. The Jeff Beck guitars of '79 had an "Old Head" sans stripe...
Anyhow, a Super Partscaster would not be my preferred outcome, so it'd be nice to know if this was a special order.
Wish I had more clues to go on. I've attached just a few more relevant pics, perhaps they could be helpful in id'ing the saddles. I also noticed a chip in the paint by the lower strap button.. doesn't reveal much grain, but maybe someone with an eagle eye can make something of it.
One other detail (and something that has made me interested in this guitar) is the seller's note on its weight - 3.2kg/7.05lbs. I love a light Strat, and many of the SEs I've checked out have looked awesome but clock in at upwards of 4kg/9lbs, sometimes pushing 10. From my reading, agathis is usually heavier than sen/alder. Is that generally correct? If so, 7lbs would seem quite svelte.
While I have you.....
I've come across the guitar below, listed as a '79 with no additional identification. Don't see any Super Sound Super Strats fit with humbuckers in any Greco catalog. Could these be special ordered or is it more likely that someone took a chisel to to her and did some routing of their own?
Thanks again for your amazing reply.2
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Think nothing of it. Having such a ridiculously narrow area of expertise, I'm always vaguely surprised when someone else a) is prepared to listen to my input and b) finds it helpful. 
Yeah, that 500V is a good one, basically mint and one of the few guitars I have that lives in its hard case between playing session. The usual thing: that first ding would be heartbreaking. Pity in a way, the '78 V-finish ages really beautifully, something that seldom happens with MIJ guitars.
As for wood and weights... well, it varies a lot, often for no consistent reason that I can see. Early-mid 70s instruments with maple bodies are obviously heavy, basswood tends towards lightness, but other than that, it seems to be more about individual pieces and/or batches to a large extent. For instance, I had a 1985 (by serial, but probably not assembled and sold until '87... long story) Tokai TLS-50 that weighed in at 3.8 kg, despite solid construction and correct materials. Snooping around, I found several similar ones advertised as below the 4 kg mark. I've had two 1978 SE-600Ws at 4+ kg, and there are others at around the same weight. The catalog specs say sen or alder, so no mystery there. I would assume that both these are cases of batches of unusually light or heavy wood resulting in batches of guitars with unusual weights? It seems to have been a non-issue at the time, though. These days, a Strat heavier than say 3.8 kgs is almost impossible to sell. I'd definitely put the low weight of this one on the plus side of the account, regardless of what it actually is.
Yeah, those are the narrow bridge saddles, paired with the narrow pole-pitch PU-100 pickups. This was standard on early 70's instruments, which seems to have been an adaptation to smaller Japanese hands. The wider saddles and the standard-size PU-119s (and later, PU-100Ws) come in with the introduction of the SE700 in 1977 and gradually bleeds through the whole range. By 1980 all SE's have correct-size saddles and pickups.
Bridge of a 1978 SE700.
The second guitar is actually an early-production 1980 SE450S. Yeah, the serial is 1979, but note the L for December. November and December (sometimes even October) guitars are manufactured to next years specs, to line up with the launch of the new range late in the autumn. Good thing to keep in mind when catalog specs and features don't match up.
Another thing that is potentially confusing with this one: even if you ID the production year and model number correctly, it should say Spacey Sound on the headstock, not Super Sound. That's another feature of early 1980 Grecos in general: the new price range-specific model names are not actually in place on instruments at the time of the usual late-autumn launch window, but seems to appear during January 1980 or so.
Why this is is unclear, but I think it's reasonable to assume that they were Really Busy With Other Things. The 1980 range is basically a total reboot, the majority of instruments were new from the ground up compared to the late-70's models. I guess they must have had a lot on their minds..
As for that particular guitar, mod or factory original? It's (predictably) basically impossible to tell without peering inside it. It looks like it's been tampered with to some degree, the jack plate is either a replacement or has been painted black. The pickup looks like it could be a DiMarzio Super Distorsion or Dual Sound. True, Greco had EG models with DM pickups, but I'm not sure they were even available with black bobbins at that time? But, it could have been painted, of course.
So, my money's on a mod, but the jury's still out. It very likely indeed a truly excellent guitar, though. To my mind, 1980-82 450s are killer guitars with zero hype and still low prices. But I would probably wait for a more demonstrably original one.
Yeah, that 500V is a good one, basically mint and one of the few guitars I have that lives in its hard case between playing session. The usual thing: that first ding would be heartbreaking. Pity in a way, the '78 V-finish ages really beautifully, something that seldom happens with MIJ guitars.
As for wood and weights... well, it varies a lot, often for no consistent reason that I can see. Early-mid 70s instruments with maple bodies are obviously heavy, basswood tends towards lightness, but other than that, it seems to be more about individual pieces and/or batches to a large extent. For instance, I had a 1985 (by serial, but probably not assembled and sold until '87... long story) Tokai TLS-50 that weighed in at 3.8 kg, despite solid construction and correct materials. Snooping around, I found several similar ones advertised as below the 4 kg mark. I've had two 1978 SE-600Ws at 4+ kg, and there are others at around the same weight. The catalog specs say sen or alder, so no mystery there. I would assume that both these are cases of batches of unusually light or heavy wood resulting in batches of guitars with unusual weights? It seems to have been a non-issue at the time, though. These days, a Strat heavier than say 3.8 kgs is almost impossible to sell. I'd definitely put the low weight of this one on the plus side of the account, regardless of what it actually is.
Yeah, those are the narrow bridge saddles, paired with the narrow pole-pitch PU-100 pickups. This was standard on early 70's instruments, which seems to have been an adaptation to smaller Japanese hands. The wider saddles and the standard-size PU-119s (and later, PU-100Ws) come in with the introduction of the SE700 in 1977 and gradually bleeds through the whole range. By 1980 all SE's have correct-size saddles and pickups.
Bridge of a 1978 SE700.
The second guitar is actually an early-production 1980 SE450S. Yeah, the serial is 1979, but note the L for December. November and December (sometimes even October) guitars are manufactured to next years specs, to line up with the launch of the new range late in the autumn. Good thing to keep in mind when catalog specs and features don't match up.
Another thing that is potentially confusing with this one: even if you ID the production year and model number correctly, it should say Spacey Sound on the headstock, not Super Sound. That's another feature of early 1980 Grecos in general: the new price range-specific model names are not actually in place on instruments at the time of the usual late-autumn launch window, but seems to appear during January 1980 or so.
Why this is is unclear, but I think it's reasonable to assume that they were Really Busy With Other Things. The 1980 range is basically a total reboot, the majority of instruments were new from the ground up compared to the late-70's models. I guess they must have had a lot on their minds..
As for that particular guitar, mod or factory original? It's (predictably) basically impossible to tell without peering inside it. It looks like it's been tampered with to some degree, the jack plate is either a replacement or has been painted black. The pickup looks like it could be a DiMarzio Super Distorsion or Dual Sound. True, Greco had EG models with DM pickups, but I'm not sure they were even available with black bobbins at that time? But, it could have been painted, of course.
So, my money's on a mod, but the jury's still out. It very likely indeed a truly excellent guitar, though. To my mind, 1980-82 450s are killer guitars with zero hype and still low prices. But I would probably wait for a more demonstrably original one.
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moose
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Visually that 500W is up my alley and the low weight is a plus. Check out this '79 600 for example - ebay Link. In demonstrably good/better shape.. but nearly 10 lbs! My shoulder just can't take it....
It's quite fun to look at 40 year old guitars that one might actually be able to afford! I can see how you could become interested enough to accrue such a deep knowledge of the subject, and I'm grateful to you and the rest of the community here for sharing in it!
The hunt continues! Here's to finding a high quality 50s/early 60s spec Springy or Super with a rosewood board..
It's quite fun to look at 40 year old guitars that one might actually be able to afford! I can see how you could become interested enough to accrue such a deep knowledge of the subject, and I'm grateful to you and the rest of the community here for sharing in it!
The hunt continues! Here's to finding a high quality 50s/early 60s spec Springy or Super with a rosewood board..
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If I were you, I'd focus on 1980-82 guitars. The late 70's guitars are excellent, but the final generation takes it up one more notch. Most notably, they have good, vintage-style bridges (finally!) with a separate block and steel saddles.
The 500 and 600 level provides the most vaule for money, the 800s have Super Real on the headstock and you always pay a lot more for those two words. You get a nitro finish and soft-v neck but no higher quality of craftsmanship or playability imho.
They're kind of 1950's copies by default, most of them have maple necks, but as always, Greco provided options. I had this March 1980 SE500T with a rosewood neck for a while, stunningly good guitar... I had it down as a keeper, but then somebody wanted to buy it...
You might also consider the various Jeff Beck models. They're a special breed with various degrees of weird switching, sure, but all are white with a rosewood board and seriously good guitars all around. Slightly too odd for most ppl, they're seldom very expensive, and easily moddable to standard config.
If you don't wan't to mod, 500Js are especially nice, because the switching is comparatively straightforward, just on/off/phase per pickups. Think Brian May's Red Special. This one is Jan 1980.
Good hunting!
The 500 and 600 level provides the most vaule for money, the 800s have Super Real on the headstock and you always pay a lot more for those two words. You get a nitro finish and soft-v neck but no higher quality of craftsmanship or playability imho.
They're kind of 1950's copies by default, most of them have maple necks, but as always, Greco provided options. I had this March 1980 SE500T with a rosewood neck for a while, stunningly good guitar... I had it down as a keeper, but then somebody wanted to buy it...
You might also consider the various Jeff Beck models. They're a special breed with various degrees of weird switching, sure, but all are white with a rosewood board and seriously good guitars all around. Slightly too odd for most ppl, they're seldom very expensive, and easily moddable to standard config.
If you don't wan't to mod, 500Js are especially nice, because the switching is comparatively straightforward, just on/off/phase per pickups. Think Brian May's Red Special. This one is Jan 1980.
Good hunting!
