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How to Peter Green my Love Rock?
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Nonvintage
Plucker


Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:28 pm    Post subject: How to Peter Green my Love Rock? Reply with quote

Which pickups to buy or what do I do to the neck pickup? I turned it around but I've read something about "flipping" the magnets.
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Jamieh
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Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't need to replace your pickups and you don't need to flip the magnets or reverse the pickup.

What Peter did, was take his pickup apart and put it back together wrong with the magnets and the wiring the wrong way round, resulting in the neck pup being out of phase with the bridge.

Don't try to do that though! Its not necessary and too complicated!

All you need to do is reverse the hot and ground on your pickup to the switch (or volume, depending how it is wired) IF you have a outer shield that is the ground though on your pickup wiring (as most Gibsons do) you will need to shield this to avoid grounding the hot and thus cutting signal.

This is because the shield will become your hot contact, so shorting it to ground will cut the signal.

Something like a domestic twin core and earth Earth shield will do... just a short section of narrow flexible plastic pipe to stop the wire touching anything.

Easy.

What is even better is if you wire it into a push-pull pot so you ca switch it between "Green" and "Normal"!
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peacock72
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Joined: 25 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, Peter's neck pickup was incorrectly rewound. The pickup was accidentally rewound backwards with reverse polarity, which resulted in the out of phase middle position. Reversing the hot and ground wires will only work if the pickup has 4 conductor wiring, which Peter's original '59 did not. If your pickups do not have 4 conductor wiring, the only way to achieve the reverse polarity without significant modification would be to flip the magnet. Just loosen the bobbin screws, gently pull up the bobbin revealing the magnet and flip it over top to bottom. Playing with the volume controls can yield varying degrees of the out of phase effect. I find the effect gets thinner and more hollow with lower volume settings on both pots. WCR Pickups and WB Pickups are two US winders with great sounding Peter Green style pickups. Jim at WCR was actually able to study and measure the actual Peter Green Les Paul, whereas Will at WB managed to get a hold of the actual rewind recipe which has made it's way to a few winders from the original source!
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried this years ago, and I found that just wiring the pickups out of phase produced a sound that was too thin. I seem to remember that putting a tiny capacitor somewhere (?) on the phase switch improved this, but i can't remember the details.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Mike
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Nonvintage
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:00 pm    Post subject: Mod is Done! Reply with quote

I had the neck pickups magnet flipped. OHHHH YEAAAH!
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Slowhanz
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Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did the Mod to my Love Rock. I read about how to do it on the Seymour Duncan site. He tells how to flip the magnets. I also turned the neck pickup around, but I'm not sure that this is necessary.

Anyway, it works great and I can nail the Peter Green sound. When you have the two volume controls aligned, the volume is very low and and the sound is nassally. Simply turning up the bridge volume just a tad powers it up, while retaining the nasal quality. Add some reverb and you've got it.

Here is the information from the site. You can find it in Seymour's FAQS

71. What did Peter Green do to his Humbuckers to give him his sound and does he still have his old Les Paul that he used in early recording with Fleetwood Mac? Jeff Ross, Hollywood, Ca
This question has come up a lot lately. What Peter Green did was pretty easy to do. First the neck pickup is out of phase with the bridge pickup. To do this the cover was removed from the Humbucking Pickup, the screws loosened and the Alnico bar magnet was pull out and flipped over 180? degrees and put back in place. The screws that were loosened need to be firmly tightened or you will have extra feedback problems. The magnet should be pulled out on the opposite end where the lead and hookup wires are attached and soldered. When putting the pickup back in the mounting ring, you need to reverse the angle of the ring. When you put the pickup back into the routed cavity the adjustable screws will face the bridge and the studs (under the cover) will face the neck. The stud side of the bobbin has a slightly higher magnetic field than the adjustable side. This is because the adjustable screws extend out the bottom of the pickup and loose some of the magnetic field to the strings. Peter's old Les Paul is now owned by Gary Moore another great guitarist from England. Peter was born on October 29, 1946. Peter took Eric Clapton's place in John Mayall's Bluesbreakers around July of 1966, and in June of 1967 left the Bluesbreakers to help form Fleetwood Mac. Eric Clapton left to form Cream with Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker. Trying finding and listening to John Mayall albums as he had great guitarist working and recording with him similar to "The Yardbirds" (Clapton, Beck, & Page). Besides Clapton and Green other great guitarist have worked with John such as Rick Vito and currently Coco Montoya.

Slowhanz
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slowhanz wrote:
Peter's old Les Paul is now owned by Gary Moore another great guitarist from England.


It isn't - he sold it for a large amount of money, and then complained that the person he sold it to sold it for even more money. If he feels as spiritually connected to Green as he has always claimed, maybe he shouldn't have sold it?

And I'd also like to challenge the claim that Moore is a "great" guitarist. Loud, yes, great, no....

Mike
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Slowhanz
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Joined: 09 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree that Gary Moore is better than most, but he's not great. And to me, it was a sacred honor to have Greeny's guitar and Moore should never have sold it(especially considering Green's state of mind when he gave it to Moore). Moore couldn't have been that hard up for money.
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly. I'm sure Moore has a lot more money than I have, but if Peter Green had personally given or sold me his guitar, I wouldn't have sold it until I was down to my last penny.
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ThinLizzy
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Joined: 03 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stratman323 wrote:
Slowhanz wrote:
Peter's old Les Paul is now owned by Gary Moore another great guitarist from England.


And I'd also like to challenge the claim that Moore is a "great" guitarist. Loud, yes, great, no....

Mike


I'm not gonna challenge the claim of his "greatness", just the claim that he's from England. He's Irish.
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Rustyslide
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Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 108
Location: Halifax, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

peacock72 wrote:
Reversing the hot and ground wires will only work if the pickup has 4 conductor wiring, which Peter's original '59 did not. If your pickups do not have 4 conductor wiring, the only way to achieve the reverse polarity without significant modification would be to flip the magnet.


You can flip the connections on two-conductor wiring, just you'll probably pick up a lot of RF on the shield (which is now hot), and it'll short against the ground of the other pickup and any other outside ground. You can solve the second problem by insulating the wire (heat shrink tubing, for instance), but you're better off replacing the wire with what Jamieh suggested (two wires with a braided ground).

I put a push-pull pot on my Greco to control the phase, along with the wire swap mentioned above, and it works great. A lot easier than taking apart my pickup and repotting it.

Slowhanz wrote:
I also turned the neck pickup around, but I'm not sure that this is necessary.


Purely cosmetic.
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't suppose out of phase would be any use for that Greeny sound on a LP with two P90s?
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Rustyslide
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Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stratman323 wrote:
I don't suppose out of phase would be any use for that Greeny sound on a LP with two P90s?


Sound more like T-Bone walker, I think.
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds good to me.
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marcusnieman
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Joined: 22 May 2003
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rustyslide wrote:
stratman323 wrote:
I don't suppose out of phase would be any use for that Greeny sound on a LP with two P90s?


Sound more like T-Bone walker, I think.


I reverse wired a Danelectro that I have and in the middle position with both pups active, it has a VERY T Bone Walker kind of honk to it - which sounds pretty cool.
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