Pots and caps

Tokai Forum

Help Support Tokai Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tudor mentioned, in his review of his new Fender Japan Strat, that he changed the pots and the capacitors. I realised that I don't really know what difference pots and caps make to the sound, so I'm hoping that some of you will enlighten me.

It's particularly Strats & Teles that I'm interested in. I know that 250k pots are recommended for single coils, & 500k or above for humbuckers, but I'd have a job to explain why. Same with linear or audio taper. And what difference does a better quality pot make to the sound?

I know even less about capacitors, their different values, and what the difference is between ceramic and, erm, the other type :eek: So all information will be gratefully received. If it makes any difference, I like Strats to be wired with master volume & master tone (like a Tele), the bottom pot unconnected. It just seems so much more logical that way, and easier to adjust in a hurry.
 
Didn't change the pots ... the CTS pots are stock ... :wink:

I know that many guys here say, it's overrated with those caps ... OK that's not a big difference, I must admit ...
... but I made my experiences with my very percussive sounding Tele and my Edwards and my Gibbo Classic ...
When I replaced the electronics of my Eddie to get the '50's wiring, the German pup winder Andreas Kloppmann recommended strongly to use CTS pots and also the Mallory150 caps ... he was right !!! Tremendous upgrade in sound without muddiness and - suddenly I knew what the tone knobs were made for ... I could change the tone - whereas during the time before the tone knobs stayed at '10' all the time ... no matter what song I was playing ...

... and my Tele has got all the sound I love - from bluesey to pronounced twang ... BTW - the higher the rate the more treble cutting you'll get ...
I have the .047?F in my Tele - the .022?F in my LPs and the strat ...

That's what Ray (from Ray's custom shop) says about the pots ...

Any Les Paul-type guitar I buy, first thing I do is change the pots to these if they don't already have them (they generally don't). Huh?

Older Historics used to come with 500K Linear taper pots with cheap plastic insides. Unfortunately, human ears don't hear linearly, so if the knob is on zero, it seems almost full-volume by the time its turned to "3". WIth audio taper, the volume increases gradually through the whole taper of the pot, much more natural sounding.

These are the de-facto standard in guitar pots, best quality out there. For guitars with cheap, import pots, this is a must-have upgrade. As with most upgrades, its the simple stuff that has the most impact, and this is no exception.
Click to expand...

Roger
 
stratman323 said:
I know even less about capacitors, their different values, and what the difference is between ceramic and, erm, the other type :eek: So all information will be gratefully received. If it makes any difference, I like Strats to be wired with master volume & master tone (like a Tele), the bottom pot unconnected. It just seems so much more logical that way, and easier to adjust in a hurry.
Click to expand...

Get some ODs or the forementioned Mallory 150s. Personally I prefer ODs. The value dictates how quickly the highs roll off. Higher values will also bleed off slightly lower frequencies than lower values. That is to say, a .022 will only bleed off the highest frequencies whereas caps with higher ratings may dip into the high mids. Hope this helps.
 
Thanks. What are ODs? Is that the make?

With the caps, is .022 the type that most vintage type Strats & Teles come fitted with as standard?
 
Great. So Orange Drops & Mallorys are not ceramic? So what are they then?

Also, is there a good reason to use anything other than a .022 cap in a Strat or a Tele? I tend to go for a fairly authentic vintage type tone, so I assume the answer is no?
 
stratman323 said:
Great. So Orange Drops & Mallorys are not ceramic? So what are they then?

Also, is there a good reason to use anything other than a .022 cap in a Strat or a Tele? I tend to go for a fairly authentic vintage type tone, so I assume the answer is no?
Click to expand...

ODs are so called 'Polypropylene Film Caps' and Mallorys are 'Metalized Polyester Tubular Film Caps' ... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
That tells the stuff they are made of ... 8) 8)
Ceramics are those tiny brown/orange discs ... :wink:
http://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/index.php/cat/c141_Tubular-Polyester-Film-Caps.html
If you'll scroll down on the left side ... you'll have pics also from the ODs and the Ceramic caps ...

If you've got a very bright and percussive sounding guitar and you like it a little bit darker ... you should choose the .033 ?F version perhaps ... :wink: ... it's a matter of personal taste ...

Roger
 
OK, so these other caps are simply better quality than the cheap ceramic ones? I think it's all beginning to make sense! So if I changed the pots on a Strat from 250k to 500K, would that affect the overall tone? Or just how quickly the volume/tone reduced when I turned the pot down?

Hopefully other people will benefit from this info, not just me. :D
 
OK, so these other caps are simply better quality than the cheap ceramic ones?
Click to expand...

YES ... the complexity of production is more expensive but they are also better quality ... you'll find those Ceramics mostly in the low budget guitars but also in Gibbos ... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
They have a more 'bright' character - less bottom ... IMO ... 8)

So if I changed the pots on a Strat from 250k to 500K, would that affect the overall tone? Or just how quickly the volume/tone reduced when I turned the pot down?
Click to expand...
I don't know if that would make sense ... the 250k are made for SC pups ... if you'll have a humbucker a 500k pot would be the best choice to get a good result - it depends on the resistance you'll have to turn down ... AFAIK ... 8)

Roger
 
tudor said:
... the 250k are made for SC pups ... if you'll have a humbucker a 500k pot would be the best choice to get a good result - it depends on the resistance you'll have to turn down ... AFAIK ... 8)

Roger
Click to expand...

+1

As a general rule 250k is the best choice for Fender single coils. I suppose (in theory) there may be some exceedingly dark guitars with very hot single coils that might benefit from higher valued pots. But that would be very uncommon.

For an evenly voiced guitar with vintage spec pickups, 250k is definitely the way to go. 500k would be terribly bright and shrill sounding. In a word, it would just plain sound bad.
 
Great topic! Is there a way of knowing whether or not a guitar has CTS pots or not? Do they have some visual mark or something on them?

I have '84 ST-50 and I might want to do some upgrading on it.
 
Outsider said:
Great topic! Is there a way of knowing whether or not a guitar has CTS pots or not? Do they have some visual mark or something on them?

I have '84 ST-50 and I might want to do some upgrading on it.
Click to expand...

Yeah ... take a look at the pots of my '54 Fender MIJ ...

54-117.jpg


... CTS is written on the back ... and the 250k value (blurry :-? )... :lol: :lol:

Roger
 
Those aren't Mallory or OD are they? I think I've heard of Vitamin Q, but I'm not sure why you've fitted a Vitamin Q, yet you recommend the Mallorys or ODs? :eek:

Because it's easier to get at the controls on a Tele than on a Strat, I opened up my 2 Teles. This is a stock US Tele, wired as it left the factory:

121_2190c.jpg


This is my 1988 Japanese Tele, rewired by me about 15 years ago, so the tone pot is a push-pull pot (apologies for my messy soldering!):

121_2160c.jpg


I don't understand what the writing means on either cap - can anybody tell me what values these caps are? I'm assuming the blonde one is a .022, but where does it say this? I'm also confused by the way it's wired - why does the cap connect to the volume pot? I thought the cap should connect the middle lug on the tone pot with the body of the pot? Also, are these caps decent ones or ceramics?

It's all so confusing... :eek:

Mike
 
Mike,

Those aren't Mallory or OD are they? I think I've heard of Vitamin Q, but I'm not sure why you've fitted a Vitamin Q, yet you recommend the Mallorys or ODs?
Click to expand...

... sorry for referring to my own statement above ...
... it's a matter of personal taste ...
Click to expand...

I've put them in to have a chance for a tone of "Vintage Paper/Oil" caps ... this manufacturing technique was used also to produce the famous "Bumble Bees" which gave the Gibbos "their tone" ...

can anybody tell me what values these caps are?
Click to expand...

NO ... sorry ... I'm not familiar with those ceramic caps ... better: I hate them (personal taste :wink: ) ...

I'm also confused by the way it's wired - why does the cap connect to the volume pot?
Click to expand...

I suppose you've given the answer for yourself in a different thread ...

This rings a bell from years ago when I owned a Breezy. Is there a capacitor across the volume pot? Your description sounds like one of those strange mods that is supposed to stop the sound going muddy when you turn down the volume control, but in fact it creates a new problem which is even worse! I think a capacitor is run across the volume pot somehow to bleed off certain frequencies as it is turned down.
Click to expand...

... am I wrong ?? It's just an assumption ... :-?

Roger
 
tudor said:
I suppose you've given the answer for yourself in a different thread ...

This rings a bell from years ago when I owned a Breezy. Is there a capacitor across the volume pot? Your description sounds like one of those strange mods that is supposed to stop the sound going muddy when you turn down the volume control, but in fact it creates a new problem which is even worse! I think a capacitor is run across the volume pot somehow to bleed off certain frequencies as it is turned down.
Click to expand...

... am I wrong ?? It's just an assumption ... :-?

Roger
Click to expand...

No, it's different. The circuit I referred to goes across 2 lugs of the volume pot. What I have is between the tone and volume pots. I phoned a friend who knows more than I do (not hard apparently!), and he tells me that what I have on my blonde Tele is quite standard, and very different to the "treble bleed" mod, which requires an extra cap.

I think...
 
tudor said:
can anybody tell me what values these caps are?
Click to expand...

NO ... sorry ... I'm not familiar with those ceramic caps ... better: I hate them (personal taste :wink: ) ...
Click to expand...

OK, hopefully somebody else will know how you can tell what value each cap is. So you're telling me that Fender is using cheap ceramic caps on it's high end guitars? :eek:
 
The pots in my ST-50 ('84 Goldstar Sound) are no name ones with just "250k" labeled on them, and the caps were quite similar to those in the pics by Stratman. So I guess my guitar would benefit from some upgrading in this department as well. Or what do you think? My guitar is completely stock (with U-stamped pups) so I guess the first real upgrade would be a set of punchier pickups. I would definately like to have something a bit smoother and warmer than the ones on it now... Thought about Leosounds since they are really affordable and seem to be good quality still. Suggestions?
 
Depends how picky you are - and how rich! I've bought most of my pickups secondhand from eBay. You can usually get most of the Seymour Duncan single coils for between ?20 to ?30 each (1 arrived today - cost me ?16!), maybe ?35 if you want one of the single coil sized humbuckers.

Kent Armstrongs tend to be a little cheaper, I got a set of 3 STV1s, the vintage type, for ?50.

I got 2 Voodoo ST60s for ?55, & a Fender Texas Special bridge pickup arrived yesterday to complete the set - it cost me ?22. All these prices include postage.

So if you're prepared to shop around on eBay, you can get some bargains. The other advantage is that you can try them out, & if you don't like them, you can probably sell them again and get your money back. I made a profit on 2 that I re-sold! Hold onto your Tokai pickups though - you might decide one day that you want to put them back. Or sell the guitar.

Mike
 
I've been checking up on pots and caps online. The relevant WD pages recommend .022 for humbuckers & .047 for single coils. Isn't that the wrong way round?

http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/shop/products.php?category=411&page=1

It seems that Orange Drop are quite easy to find, but I haven't yet found anywhere in the UK that sells Mallory.
 

Similar threads

F
Changing Pots On My 1979 Tokai LS60
Replies
16
Views
395
Funkymojo
F
Voidoid56
Moridaira cool: 1989-90 Bill Lawrence BTOM-60P Esquire-style
Replies
2
Views
197
Voidoid56
Voidoid56
Sigmania
1970s 1979 "For Some Reason" Ad
Replies
0
Views
106
Sigmania
Sigmania
Voidoid56
Pot Codes
Replies
3
Views
165
Voidoid56
Voidoid56
Voidoid56
Surprise of the year 2023: Elk Wildcat from 1965
Replies
2
Views
359
Puck Luck
Puck Luck

Latest posts

Back
Top