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How far should you go selling a fake ?
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BillyWizz
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:58 am    Post subject: How far should you go selling a fake ? Reply with quote

Selling a replica and letting people know its a replica is one thing. But to mislead people is nothing short of theft.


This plonker here is once again selling the infamouse Richwood brand ( made in Bejing for $10 ) and dressing it up as a Dan Smith strat.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DAN-SMITH-ERA-STRATOCASTER-STRAT-COPY_W0QQitemZ300127696670QQihZ020QQcategoryZ33039QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Since day one of these Guitars coming onto the Dutch and UK market, they have been fitted with Fender and Tokai decals and sold on ebay.


These things dont usually bother me, but I once had a 14 year old student come to me all excited about his new REAL Fender Strat he had just bought. He had worked his arse off on odd jobs and cleaning cars for years to buy this. His parents had very little money and he soon become a grafter ( worked hard ) . He paid ?400 quid for one of these fake Richwoods from ebay.

Bit if a rant, but one of the reasons these people who sell this ^&*( piss me off.
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. The truss rod adjustment alone is enough to confirm it's never been near the Fender factory. I've sent him a message pointing out his "error". If everyone who reads this does the same, he might get fed up with his scams.

But probably not, sadly....
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BillyWizz
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stratman323 wrote:
I agree. The truss rod adjustment alone is enough to confirm it's never been near the Fender factory. I've sent him a message pointing out his "error". If everyone who reads this does the same, he might get fed up with his scams.

But probably not, sadly....


He knows what he is doing


It would be great to bust his listing and place this picture up. Oh is that a Richwood RE60 strat that was once a Fender DanSmith

[/list]
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Ozeshin
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The worst part is Billy...the bastard was selling it WITH A CASE...no wonder you hate the prick...
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BillyWizz
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ozeshin wrote:
The worst part is Billy...the bastard was selling it WITH A CASE...no wonder you hate the prick...


What a bastard !!!
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oldflame
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about reporting it to ebay then or aren't they bothered?
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BillyWizz
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldflame wrote:
What about reporting it to ebay then or aren't they bothered?


You have to report it to Fender.

It all depends what mood they are in. One day they will act within hours, other days they cannot be bothered.

I used to report the one's where someone was going to get conned ( as in this case ), but I dont do anything about the ones where they state its a fake.

I dont have any issues with people selling these guitars providing they are honest.


Its when they sell it as a Fender / Tokai / Gibson, when the seller KNOWS it is not that boils my piss.
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Ozeshin
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Its when they sell it as a Fender / Tokai / Gibson, when the seller KNOWS it is not that boils my piss.

I agree 100%
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldflame wrote:
What about reporting it to ebay then or aren't they bothered?


They're not bothered. I've reported obviously fake stuff before, and then found that they've taken no action. Have you noticed how hard it is to get hold of eBay "Customer Services"? When you try to report a problem, it gives you a number of categories to choose from, and when you select one, it only allows you to enter the number of the item in quetion - it doesn't allow you to explain why you know it's a fake, or whatever the problem is. So if it isn't obvious to them that it's a con (and it won't be, as they know nothing about nothing), they'll just ignore it. And when it sells, fake or not, they'll take their cut of the profits.

Paypal are no better - if you buy a fake, even from someone who has clearly conned other people, you'll be lucky to get half your money back, after they take their "admin fee" etc. etc.

So Fender are more likely to force them to take action are they? That's worth knowing. What about Tokai? Fake Tokais are becoming more and more common, it seems.
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oldflame
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I was asking because when the fake Les Pauls started coming out of China I tried to report them to ebay but was led around the houses a bit. Mind you, they got some stick from fellow ebayers in the auction Q/A's.
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldflame wrote:
I tried to report them to ebay but was led around the houses a bit


That's quite an understatement! They seem to actively discourage people from reporting scams.
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oldflame
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah it was an understatement. More like F***ed about
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honeyboy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: How far should you go selling a fake ? Reply with quote

BillyWizz wrote:
I once had a 14 year old student come to me all excited about his new REAL Fender Strat he had just bought. He had worked his arse off on odd jobs and cleaning cars for years to buy this. His parents had very little money and he soon become a grafter ( worked hard ) . He paid ?400 quid for one of these fake Richwoods from ebay.

Did you break his heart and tell him or let him continue to enjoy it?
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BillyWizz
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Location: In a case

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: How far should you go selling a fake ? Reply with quote

honeyboy wrote:
BillyWizz wrote:
I once had a 14 year old student come to me all excited about his new REAL Fender Strat he had just bought. He had worked his arse off on odd jobs and cleaning cars for years to buy this. His parents had very little money and he soon become a grafter ( worked hard ) . He paid ?400 quid for one of these fake Richwoods from ebay.

Did you break his heart and tell him or let him continue to enjoy it?


Its a bit of a weird law in the UK. In theory you can be taken to court by Trading Standings under the 1930's Trademarks Act if you even own a fake Fender. But in reality this does not happen.

But if you get caught trying to sell one, them its a 50 : 50 chance you will get taken to court. If you are selling a few then is a 99% chance you will be taken to court. Providing a member of the public puts a complaint in.

My student has no choice but to keep his guitar seeing as TS did nothing about it. But yes he had to be told in case he sold it on.

Gibson have recently been pulling Les Paul fakes on ebay, but in the past week they have let quite a few go by. Fender are pretty good if you contact them through there email address : fenderlegalasst@fender.com
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course the problem wouldn't be so bad if Fenders weren't so easy to fake. The decals are easy to get hold of (even the Custom Shop ones), and the serial numbers on many models are on the neck plate - hardly the most difficult bit to replace. And neck dates on early guitars were either written in pencil or were from a rubber stamp, hardly a great way to confound forgers, is it? And as for swapping bodies and necks around, well Leo designed his guitars deliberately to make this easy.

Thanks God so many of the cheaper Fender copies have the truss rod adjustment at the headstock, that's probably the easiest sign to teach people.
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