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Orville K serial date confirmation

 
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japanstrat
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Joined: 23 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:16 am    Post subject: Orville K serial date confirmation Reply with quote

I had a feeling that the K serial Orvilles came from around 1990 and they were the first Orvilles made but info is so hard to find.
I just emailed a very helpul Japanese guy I found on Yahoo Japan because he had a K serial Les Paul and he was the original owner and I then asked him when he bought it

Heres what he had to say.

Nice to meet you the mail thank you.
I am sorry when the grammar is wrong because I am not good at English.

I will talk about my Orville guitar.
I bought it at 1990.
K serial number is ?K098376?.

It bought when I was a high school student.
My most favorite guitarist is John Sykes,
and, a favorite guitar is Gibson '72 LES PAUL CUSTOM "black beauty".

Did you help you?

Thank You.


So that confirms that the K serial number Orvilles are the first Orvilles made in 1989/1990 and the first digit 0 that's always in the K serial numbers stands for 1990.
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orvilleowner
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good bit of detective work. It goes along with some info I found (a long time ago) that stickers were used early on, but there's so much incorrect info regarding when Orville by Gibsons were made and what the serial numbers mean, it's hard to know what's true. Actually, this email of yours sets a date, a couple more such reports ("I bought a stickered-serial-number Orville in 19XX") would confirm it.

Stickered Orville serial numbers I've collected are: K009050, K015293, K015571, K016499, K017290, K019587, K028039, K028168, K029208, K038978, K095511, K095754, K097945, K098376, K098643, 9081900. Yes, most are "K0" numbers, which would fit with 1990, but notice the one SN that has a "9" instead of a "K." Could that be a 1989 model?

Anyway, now what about the Korean aspect of it all?
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20 century boy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting indeed.

So the popular belief that they're from 96 is definitely down.
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That 9 sticker number is interesting.
I didn't know that a 9 was used sometimes instead of a K.

Also I forgot to mention that the guy that sent me the email wasn't a seller he was just talking about the guitars he owns on his website.

http://www.geocities.jp/no11game/guitars_main.htm

At the bottom of the page he mentions that the Orville is 16 years old.

The photos don't show a K serial so I just took a chance that it might be a K serial Orville and so I asked him in the email I sent and he sent back the Orvilles K serial number.
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't believe any Korean stuff from any of the Orville sellers.
They make it up themselves.
I've seen made and assembled in Korea, made in Japan assembled in Korea, Made in Japan using Korean hardware etc.
Just like the K serial Orvilles date it's just rumors and stuff they make up.
Probably Yamano would know the answer.
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I emailed Yamano about where the Orvilles were made and what factories were used and didn't really expect a reply but they did reply.
They said all the Orvilles were made in Japan but they wouldn't tell me about the factories used without some sort of clearance, which is fair enough I think.
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20 century boy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A friend of mine emailed Gibson.jp a few years ago, and the guy answered they were made at IIda, Terada and Fujigen gakki, wich were-it's not a surprise- the same factories involved of the production of the "?piphone japan" era models and the elitist/LQ models. ( Terada also makes a lot of the gretsch for Fender)
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Orvilles were renamed Epiphone Elites because they wanted to export the Japanese models and the exported Epiphone Elites don't have the open book headstock and the ones that stayed in Japam do from what I've read.
They also stopped most of the Orville serial number format for the Epiphone Elites and they start using serials with the factory prefix.
I've seen F (fujigen) used for solidbodys and T (terada) used for ES-335's but I havn't seen I used (Iida).
It would make sense that the Orvilles would use the same factories as the Epiphone Elites.
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20 century boy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

japanstrat wrote:

It would make sense that the Orvilles would use the same factories as the Epiphone Elites.


Yes, I think too, especially when the switch from one brand to another has been made so quickly.

I'd be interrested to know why they changed the brand but I guess that, with most japanese replicas has been stopped it was useless to continue. Especially when japan was a wealthy country and that they could now buy some real Gibson. Why compete with themselves? The Orville by Gibson ligne were as good if not better as the american ones... so the choice of of making only "orville" then the ?piphone JP and the new ligne is logical, the customer of those latest lignes never have exactly the real gibson (it's gibson electronic OR lacquer finish).
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been looking at some Epiphone Elitist Les Pauls and just like the Orvilles some have a sticker serial number and some don't.
Just like the Orvilles the sticker comes off sometimes leaving no serial.
The ones with the sticker seem to be a 311 XXXXXX format and the ones without a sticker have a Fujigen serial format F XXXXXX.
The difference from the Orvilles is that the Elitist models have to be marked with a country of origin for export and it is on a sticker where the neck joins the body.
Are the sticker Elitist models Korean?
No, because the sticker Elitist models and the stamped Elitist models are both marked made in japan.
Another thing I've noticed is that a lot of the pre Orville Japanese Epiphones from the 1980's use a sticker as well and they also have made in japan on them.
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At digimart there is a stamped elitist and a no serial elitist (stickers come off).
It's a bit hard to see but double click on the back view image.
There are also some on ebay canada.
What's the difference?
They both have the made in japan sticker.

serial elitist

http://www.digimart.net/gk_detail.do?instrument_id=DS00194363

no serial elitist

http://www.digimart.net/gk_detail.do?instrument_id=DS00194364

no sticker

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Epiphone-Elitist-Ebony-Les-Paul-Studio-Electric-Guitar_W0QQitemZ300038167337QQihZ020QQcategoryZ33037QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

sticker

http://cgi.ebay.ca/EPIPHONE-ELITIST-LES-PAUL-GUITAR-LEFT-HAND-JAPAN_W0QQitemZ130036729490QQihZ003QQcategoryZ33037QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

another sticker

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Epiphone-Elitist-Les-Paul-Standard-Electric-Guitar_W0QQitemZ150046029720QQihZ005QQcategoryZ33037QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

fujigen serial

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Epiphone-Elitist-Tak-Matsumoto-Signature-Les-Paul-MINT_W0QQitemZ270039392423QQihZ017QQcategoryZ38086QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the Elitists (but not all) with a sticker or no serial are stamped 2nd or used meaning a minor flaw.
A "factory second" is either: cosmetic blemish, factory overstock, or dealer return.
So they get the sticker if they have minor flaws (stamped 2nd or used) or are overstocked at the factory or returned from dealers.
Apparantly the sticker voids the warranty as well.
Are the K serial number sticker Orvilles similar to the sticker Elitist's?
I think there is a good chance.
Even if some of the Orvilles were made in Korea they still could have been stamped with a serial number following the other Orvilles format.
And the K serial numbers are a weird format even for Korean makers. They don't seem to really follow any Asian serial number format making it likely that they are minor flaw models given a random serial number marker as with the Elitist sticker serial numbers.
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://page2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b73825692

Another K serial SG original owner says he bought it in May 1990 for 60000 Yen.

So this one just confirms the 1989-1993 production of the K Orvilles.
This and the 1989 1990 Orville catalogue SG-60 model that isn't in the 1992 catalogue confirms the K serial production years.

Forget the 1996 K Orville stuff, it was just made up by someone and the same goes for the Korean rumor as well.

Strange things about the K Orvilles.

1. I've never seen a Yamano warranty included with a K Orville Auction.
I've seen quite a few Yamano warranties included with Orville by Gibsons and the ink stamped Orvilles on Auctions.

2. The K serial Orville model range duplicate the "Orville by Gibson" LP and SG models and the one Orville (Orville bass from 1989) that doesn't duplicate the Orville by Gibson model range gets an ink stamped serial number.
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And another one.

http://page2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b75100223

The seller says that the K Orville was bought 15 years ago so it was bought in 1991/1992 and the serial number is K 018154 = 1 8154 = 1991 so it was made in 1991.
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