Roe
Well-known member
I want a magnetic out of phase sound ala peter greenbaum in the middle pos on my LS-320. How do I reverse/flipp the magnets?
thanks
thanks
how to magnetically reverse the phase of a PAF?
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tudor
Well-known member
Hi,
if the pups have no cover ...
... just loosen the screws on the back of one and about-face it - then tighten the screws again.
If they do have covers - and I think the pups of your LS320 have got them - ask a tech.
BTW - stunning guitar, Congrats and enjoy playing !! :lol:
Roger
if the pups have no cover ...
... just loosen the screws on the back of one and about-face it - then tighten the screws again.
If they do have covers - and I think the pups of your LS320 have got them - ask a tech.
BTW - stunning guitar, Congrats and enjoy playing !! :lol:
Roger
Paladin2019
Well-known member
You can achieve the same sound by wiring it *electrically* out of phase - just reverse the ground and hot wires on one of the pickups.
This method has several distinct advantages: you can make it switcheable, it's much easier and much less risky to do, and it's easy to reverse if you want to.
BTW - it's peter green, not peter greenbaum. :wink:
This method has several distinct advantages: you can make it switcheable, it's much easier and much less risky to do, and it's easy to reverse if you want to.
BTW - it's peter green, not peter greenbaum. :wink:
tudor
Well-known member
Paladin2019,
:roll: :roll: you're absolutely right - that's the best way !!!
... sometimes it is the heat, sometimes not ... :-? :-?
Roger
:roll: :roll: you're absolutely right - that's the best way !!!
... sometimes it is the heat, sometimes not ... :-? :-?
Roger
Roe
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well, i've heard several times that is does not sound the same. when it's magnetically out of phase, the effect is supposed to increase the higher pinch the tone have.
bruceboomstick
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If my knowledge of physics serves me correctly (it's a little thin these days.....) then the effect should be the same - flipping the magnet reverses the polarity of the pickup physically, reversing the wires will do exactly the same thing electronically - as the flow of electrons runs the other way..........Having said that what works on paper doesn't always work tonally.
Again if I remember correctly the green/moore LP is wired out of phase - not magnet flipped - actually I can't remember if green wired it that way or if it was "quality" issue at the gibson factory (anyone know anymore about that).
I'm in agreement with paladin in that the main advantage is that you can switch the "honk" on and off - which means you can be Gary Moore when and where you want - but retain a lot of versatility.
I know a couple of guys who have done it - in both cases electronically and switchable. It's a great fun mod - I love that sound .
Great guitar BTW
Roe
Well-known member
people disagree a bit over the green/moore guitar :-? , but Jol Danzig of Hamer who looked inside the guitar said it was magnetic polarity, not electrical phase. I've heard good green style clips of guitars that's magnetically out of phase as well. I want to try magnetic polarity, not electrical phase on this guitar. :evil:
said it was magnetic polarity, not electrical phase. I've heard good green style clips of guitars that's magnetically out of phase as well. I want to try magnetic polarity, not electrical phase on this guitar. :evil:bruceboomstick
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In terms of iconic guitars Greens LP has got to rank alongside Claptons Black strat (actaully that could make for an interesting thread in it's own right). I think it's probably the most argued about guitar in history !
Most of the UK guitar press has always worked on the wired theory, but none of them - to my knowledge - ever got look inside.
Paladin2019
Well-known member
Roe said:
Where did you hear this? It doesn't make much sense.
I've got my guitar wired up for electrical phase switching and it gets exactly the sound you're looking for. :-?
mike martin
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i think the green/moore guitar pickup sound is also the fact that the pickup is upside down, also the wood and every thing else comes into the equasion, i read that somewhere, i tried it on a 1985 loverock
but to my ears ther was hardly any diferance
but to my ears ther was hardly any diferance
Roe
Well-known member
with magnetic polarity, the phase effect is supposed to increase the higher pitch the tone has.
Roe
Well-known member
From Seymore Duncans' web page:
71. What did Peter Green do to his Humbuckers to give him his sound and does he still have his old Les Paul that he used in early recording with Fleetwood Mac? Jeff Ross, Hollywood, Ca
This question has come up a lot lately. What Peter Green did was pretty easy to do. First the neck pickup is out of phase with the bridge pickup. To do this the cover was removed from the Humbucking Pickup, the screws loosened and the Alnico bar magnet was pull out and flipped over 180? degrees and put back in place. The screws that were loosened need to be firmly tightened or you will have extra feedback problems. The magnet should be pulled out on the opposite end where the lead and hookup wires are attached and soldered. When putting the pickup back in the mounting ring, you need to reverse the angle of the ring. When you put the pickup back into the routed cavity the adjustable screws will face the bridge and the studs (under the cover) will face the neck. The stud side of the bobbin has a slightly higher magnetic field than the adjustable side. This is because the adjustable screws extend out the bottom of the pickup and loose some of the magnetic field to the strings.
71. What did Peter Green do to his Humbuckers to give him his sound and does he still have his old Les Paul that he used in early recording with Fleetwood Mac? Jeff Ross, Hollywood, Ca
This question has come up a lot lately. What Peter Green did was pretty easy to do. First the neck pickup is out of phase with the bridge pickup. To do this the cover was removed from the Humbucking Pickup, the screws loosened and the Alnico bar magnet was pull out and flipped over 180? degrees and put back in place. The screws that were loosened need to be firmly tightened or you will have extra feedback problems. The magnet should be pulled out on the opposite end where the lead and hookup wires are attached and soldered. When putting the pickup back in the mounting ring, you need to reverse the angle of the ring. When you put the pickup back into the routed cavity the adjustable screws will face the bridge and the studs (under the cover) will face the neck. The stud side of the bobbin has a slightly higher magnetic field than the adjustable side. This is because the adjustable screws extend out the bottom of the pickup and loose some of the magnetic field to the strings.
bruceboomstick
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I thought I'd have a trawl around for some info - Peter Green's entry on wikipedia talks about magnetic out of phase.
Other sites like this one:
http://www.mikesguitarsite.co.uk/gear/fleetwood_mac/index.php?page=Peter+Green talk about electronic out of phaseness.
Now that I think of it I'm not sure I want to know the answer now - I'd like to leave it as a mystery......
EDIT: There's a question re this very subject in total guitar. Green p/ups are magnetically reversed, TGs suggestion was the same as Roger's - swap just reverse the neck pickup - job done !
Roe - would you be able post some soundclips before and after you do the mod - I would be way cool to hear the difference
Other sites like this one:
http://www.mikesguitarsite.co.uk/gear/fleetwood_mac/index.php?page=Peter+Green talk about electronic out of phaseness.
Now that I think of it I'm not sure I want to know the answer now - I'd like to leave it as a mystery......
EDIT: There's a question re this very subject in total guitar. Green p/ups are magnetically reversed, TGs suggestion was the same as Roger's - swap just reverse the neck pickup - job done !
Roe - would you be able post some soundclips before and after you do the mod - I would be way cool to hear the difference
Paladin2019
Well-known member
Roe said:
Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you saying there's more treble in the signal when using magnetic phase?
And again I ask, where did you get this information from?
Roe
Well-known member
no,
you can hear the phase effect better on i the treble than the bass
i've just read this in guitar mags. and heard a few clips. there's some info on the duncan forum as well.
you can hear the phase effect better on i the treble than the bass
i've just read this in guitar mags. and heard a few clips. there's some info on the duncan forum as well.
tudor
Well-known member
Roe,
I really enjoy helping people who have questions ... :lol:
... but obviously you have already known what we were trying to figure out ...! :-?
From that point of view - I don't understand the purpose of your original question!!
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Roger
Paladin2019
Well-known member
Roe said:
That's rubbish. The only difference between the two that I've ever heard talked about is that electrical phase can be noisier than magnetic phase, and I'm not even sure if that's true.
If you'd like I could put together a clip or two for you showing what electrical phase sounds like. From what you're saying, it sounds like you've never heard an electrical out of phase guitar, so maybe I can help.
Roe
Well-known member
tudor said:
I didn't knew when I asked. found out later.
Roe
Well-known member
Paladin2019 said:
yes, I've heard guitars that's electrical out of phase. here's what I'm refering to, the article "The secret of Green's Supernatural pickups" in
the November 2000 issue of Guitar Player:
"Magnetically generated phase shift seems to respond to pitch changes-the higher the note, the more pronounced the effect. <BR>Chords and bass notes don't have the thin, shrill sound of out-of-phase wiring, yet high notes played on the top strings have a prnounced hollow cry. Want to judge the sound of the "Greeny wiring" for yourself? visit truefire.com and download "inside B.B.'s Blues"."
I probably found the clips at the Toneninja website, but it's down at the moment.
I doubt that I'm able to do before and after clips.
anyway, here's more info that I've found:
http://www.hamerfanclub.com/jolspeaks.html
http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6443
http://www.vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?t=16451&highlight=peter+green
http://www.vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?t=17200&highlight=peter+green
