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how to magnetically reverse the phase of a PAF?
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Roe
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:40 am    Post subject: how to magnetically reverse the phase of a PAF? Reply with quote

I want a magnetic out of phase sound ala peter greenbaum in the middle pos on my LS-320. How do I reverse/flipp the magnets?

thanks
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tudor
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

if the pups have no cover ...

... just loosen the screws on the back of one and about-face it - then tighten the screws again.

If they do have covers - and I think the pups of your LS320 have got them - ask a tech.

BTW - stunning guitar, Congrats and enjoy playing !!


Roger
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Paladin2019
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Joined: 06 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can achieve the same sound by wiring it *electrically* out of phase - just reverse the ground and hot wires on one of the pickups.

This method has several distinct advantages: you can make it switcheable, it's much easier and much less risky to do, and it's easy to reverse if you want to.

BTW - it's peter green, not peter greenbaum.
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tudor
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paladin2019,


you're absolutely right - that's the best way !!!

... sometimes it is the heat, sometimes not ...


Roger
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Roe
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, i've heard several times that is does not sound the same. when it's magnetically out of phase, the effect is supposed to increase the higher pinch the tone have.
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bruceboomstick
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
well, i've heard several times that is does not sound the same. when it's magnetically out of phase, the effect is supposed to increase the higher pinch the tone have.


If my knowledge of physics serves me correctly (it's a little thin these days.....) then the effect should be the same - flipping the magnet reverses the polarity of the pickup physically, reversing the wires will do exactly the same thing electronically - as the flow of electrons runs the other way..........Having said that what works on paper doesn't always work tonally.

Again if I remember correctly the green/moore LP is wired out of phase - not magnet flipped - actually I can't remember if green wired it that way or if it was "quality" issue at the gibson factory (anyone know anymore about that).

I'm in agreement with paladin in that the main advantage is that you can switch the "honk" on and off - which means you can be Gary Moore when and where you want - but retain a lot of versatility.

I know a couple of guys who have done it - in both cases electronically and switchable. It's a great fun mod - I love that sound .

Great guitar BTW
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Roe
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

people disagree a bit over the green/moore guitar , but Jol Danzig of Hamer who looked inside the guitar said it was magnetic polarity, not electrical phase. I've heard good green style clips of guitars that's magnetically out of phase as well. I want to try magnetic polarity, not electrical phase on this guitar.
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bruceboomstick
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
people disagree a bit over the green/moore guitar


In terms of iconic guitars Greens LP has got to rank alongside Claptons Black strat (actaully that could make for an interesting thread in it's own right). I think it's probably the most argued about guitar in history !

Most of the UK guitar press has always worked on the wired theory, but none of them - to my knowledge - ever got look inside.
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Paladin2019
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roe wrote:
well, i've heard several times that is does not sound the same. when it's magnetically out of phase, the effect is supposed to increase the higher pinch the tone have.


Where did you hear this? It doesn't make much sense.

I've got my guitar wired up for electrical phase switching and it gets exactly the sound you're looking for.
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jawilluk
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paladin2019 wrote:

BTW - it's peter green, not peter greenbaum.


Peter Green's real name is Peter Allen Greenbaum.
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mike martin
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think the green/moore guitar pickup sound is also the fact that the pickup is upside down, also the wood and every thing else comes into the equasion, i read that somewhere, i tried it on a 1985 loverock
but to my ears ther was hardly any diferance
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Roe
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

with magnetic polarity, the phase effect is supposed to increase the higher pitch the tone has.
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Roe
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Seymore Duncans' web page:

71. What did Peter Green do to his Humbuckers to give him his sound and does he still have his old Les Paul that he used in early recording with Fleetwood Mac? Jeff Ross, Hollywood, Ca

This question has come up a lot lately. What Peter Green did was pretty easy to do. First the neck pickup is out of phase with the bridge pickup. To do this the cover was removed from the Humbucking Pickup, the screws loosened and the Alnico bar magnet was pull out and flipped over 180? degrees and put back in place. The screws that were loosened need to be firmly tightened or you will have extra feedback problems. The magnet should be pulled out on the opposite end where the lead and hookup wires are attached and soldered. When putting the pickup back in the mounting ring, you need to reverse the angle of the ring. When you put the pickup back into the routed cavity the adjustable screws will face the bridge and the studs (under the cover) will face the neck. The stud side of the bobbin has a slightly higher magnetic field than the adjustable side. This is because the adjustable screws extend out the bottom of the pickup and loose some of the magnetic field to the strings.
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bruceboomstick
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I'd have a trawl around for some info - Peter Green's entry on wikipedia talks about magnetic out of phase.

Other sites like this one:

http://www.mikesguitarsite.co.uk/gear/fleetwood_mac/index.php?page=Peter+Green talk about electronic out of phaseness.

Now that I think of it I'm not sure I want to know the answer now - I'd like to leave it as a mystery......

EDIT: There's a question re this very subject in total guitar. Green p/ups are magnetically reversed, TGs suggestion was the same as Roger's - swap just reverse the neck pickup - job done !

Roe - would you be able post some soundclips before and after you do the mod - I would be way cool to hear the difference


Last edited by bruceboomstick on Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Paladin2019
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roe wrote:
with magnetic polarity, the phase effect is supposed to increase the higher pitch the tone has.


Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you saying there's more treble in the signal when using magnetic phase?

And again I ask, where did you get this information from?
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