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Importing from Japan vs buying in the UK - let's discuss!
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Schocker
Guitar God


Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: Importing from Japan vs buying in the UK - let's discuss! Reply with quote

Carried over from the previous thread:

Quote:
guitarslinger
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Sheffield
Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject:

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Well - i wasn't working on ?150 being the margin.

You could nearly pick up a very tasty washburn for that....but that is the subject of another forum me thinks.

http://www.cocosound.jp/cocosound/tokai/index.html

84000 yen is approx ?400 plus vat and import duties on top is going to add what? c?100 - so the Uk price - and i believe we are the cheapest at the moment, is roughly ?70 quid out. I'm not going to start putting a value on peace of mind, but it'd have to be more in it than that for me...but that's just me. Of course there might be cheaper out there in the rest of the world?

I'm not getting in to a price thing - more that i wasn't equating c?200 with naff all money....the day ?200 aint a lot of cash is the day i quit the rat race mate.

I firmly believe that issues like the one raised by supreme - should be dealt with by the retailer. Simple as. It wouldn't matter who the distributor is so long as a shop issues refunds in an appropriate way, speaks to customers, and heck - even do crazy things like checking guitars before they go out.

This whole thing stinks and we aint all the same....i mean...EVEN Coda would have taken that guitar back!! haha - that IS a joke by the way. Industry gags allowed.
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jawilluk
Sus4add11


Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 38
Location: London
Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject:

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A friend of mine in Japan checked out some prices for me a few months ago and said it seemed quite easy to get 15% off list price. So the figures would be;

Retail Y84000
Disc Y12600

Cost Y71400

Cost GBP ?350
Duty & VAT ?75

Total ?425

Difference ?154

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math2014
Guitar God


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 189

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject:

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jawilluk wrote:
A friend of mine in Japan checked out some prices for me a few months ago and said it seemed quite easy to get 15% off list price. So the figures would be;

Retail Y84000
Disc Y12600

Cost Y71400

Cost GBP ?350
Duty & VAT ?75

Total ?425

Difference ?154


Yes but you ommited shipping if i understand correctly and vat&duty applies to final price+shipping

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TUNAFREAK
Guitar God


Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 250
Location: monterey california
Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:56 pm Post subject:

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Supreme, they should be sending you a ES 155 for all of your pain and such. I live in the US and there is no duty or taxes of any kind. I paid a little over $1,000.00 for my LS 150 and it cost the list price minus 20% to get any Tokai through Ishibashi music of Japan. Here is the price that I paid for my ES 155 and LC 185 from Ishibashi:

Tokai ES155/VNT with hard case --- 124,000Yen =$1096.76
Tokai LC185/WR with hard case --- 148,000Yen =$1309.04

Or 592.25 GBP
706.88 GBP

I love America!

Mark

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bruno
Guitar God


Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 316
Location: Portugal/Set?bal
Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject:

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yes mark but do not forget you guys have to get them from japan... here in europe we have people dealing tokais who can get them cheaper... the lc185 for example

one point to our side

still hope to visit you there one day to play some blues eheh

sorry for the off topic

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Schocker
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Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 78

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject:

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TSL
Guitar God


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is something I posted on another thread. Then I found this thread opened. As this is the more appropriate place, I've copied it here:


You know, everyone says that in the USA they don't get charged duty from orders placed through Ishibashi. I however, had the Post Man (Post Woman actually) appear at my door with guitar in hand, as well as a very official form requiring about 10% (maybe closer to 9%) on the spot for customs in order to hand me said instrument.

I had considered this possible, as it was an inexpensive guitar (FR-53) I happily (if dissapointedly) paid the fee.

Now my guitar went through customs in Chicago, and the people who say they don't pay seem to be on the coasts, so maybe one office or the other(s) has different guidelines (though it's a Federal reg, and should be the same). I would order again from Ishibashi, and found thier service to be tops. They sent me hi-res photos of the instrument prior to shipping asking if it was OK! Couldn't ask for more. Obviously it is standard prctie for them to inspect a guitar, and not just pass it along as recieved from the manufacturer.


BTW, Rich AKA "guitarslinger" has been known to me for years now, and while we haven't met, we have corresponded on a number of different issues. If it were not for the double customs fee (first to the UK, then to the USA) I would've ordered from him without hesitation. Were I in the UK, I would likely buy from him first. Until someone proves otherwise, I hold his love of guitars, personal integrity, and business practices in high regard.
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Schocker
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Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we all reconvened here? Then let's continue!

To clarify my pricing calculations, in Japan the standard discount is 20% off list. At the moment the Yen is a little more to our favour but on average 100,000 Yen is about ?500, for example. Shipping to the UK is 16,000 Yen, roughly ?80. VAT is 17.5% and Import Duty is 3%; both of these are payable on the cost of the guitar AND the shipping.

(And let's establish at this point that marking something as a 'Gift' doesn't work...if it did, don't you think everyone would be doing it?! Anything coming in over the value of about ?35 is subject to duty unless you've slipped under the radar...)

Richard's prices are probably the best in the UK on average and I don't begrudge him making a living (no, really, you're allowed to breathe too! ). If someone really is offering good service, then it can be worth paying a bit more. To be fair to the likes of Ishibashi, though, I would be ecstatic if UK dealers were as good they are with customers.

Ah, Coda... Actually, I did buy something from them once. ONCE!!
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sneakyjapan
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Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 1871

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe the gift thing doesn`t work in Europe but it does in North America. When I send guitars to Canada, they actually are gifts, to my nephew or his dad and they`ve never paid anything for them.
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mike martin
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Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont forget to add on the fee that robbing mail charge for collectin the duty. i actually had to go to the royal mail office to chase up my guitar from japan . they had it for 3 weeks in there office, it took 3 or 4 days from japan . they charged me ?15 handling charge, bloody rip off
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mike martin
Guitar God


Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi
it was actually parcel force,the delay was supposed to be that customs held it up, but i tracked it the whole way from japan. it cleared coventry depot in 2 days, they just let it sit here.
not sure about the fee but i think that it is a percentage of the customs charge, and i think that they have a minimum fee, but beside that they had aready been paid for the postage, why should they also charge extra, also had the same with things from the states, nothing really exspensive couple of pickups .but once i actually paid more for the handling fee than the duty, if i remember correctlly the duty was about ?3. 50 and i paid ?4 postal fee, also the duty is also charged on the postage when bying overseas.and the best bit was that they never delivered it, i had to go and collect it myself
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Kappie
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Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 104
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

Let me give you some details on my LS85Q I ordered back in October from Ishibashi:

Guitar: Y 68,000 = ? 476,-
Case: Y 14,000 = ? 98,-
Total ? 574,-
Shipping EMS with case Y 18,000 = ? 126,-
Total: ? 700,-

Dutch ripp-off import services:
Rights for import: ? 28,83
VAT: ? 141,17
Extra costs ? 15,-
Total ? 182,- (= +31.5%!)

Paid in total: ? 882,- (For a truly great guitar.)

When I would have bought the guitar from togps (excellent seller, but I don?t want to advertise here) it would have saved me ? 100,-.

Moral of the story: It depends on the country you live in, in Holland you?ll pay the main price for anything, especially when importing from outside of the EU...

Another thing to note:
Recently The toggle swith had to be replaced. I had the replacement carried out by a luthier and that costed me ? 40,- in total. (It was a bit costly to send the guitar vice versa to Japan).
When I would have bought the guitar from a local dealer (not present in Holland anyway) I would have paid nothing because guarantee would still have been applicable.
Also: At a dealer you can try the guitar and select the one you like most. Unfortunately this is no option for buying Tokai?s when you live in the Netherlands.
Still, despite everything, very happy with this baby...

So... It all depends.

Kappie
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sneakyjapan
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Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 1871

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kap.....you have to learn to do the minor soldering repairs yourself...if I can, anybody can. I learned because the local Yamaha shop wanted $30.oo to change each p`up on a strat I had. Went home, removed the pickguard from another strat and rewired it myself...one wire at a time. I disconnected one wire and soldered the new one in it`s place. I was surprised how simple it was. Switches are not complicated either.
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Kappie
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Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks sneaky,

Maybe I?ll try it on my Tokai SG75 because it has a similar switch installed in it...

Regards, Herbert
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SGRocks
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guitarslinger,the price you quote of 84000 Yen for that guitar is a bit misleading to say the least,not?



You say the Custom would cost 84000 Yen/400 pounds in Japan (actually 380 pounds when converted but those 20 pounds you add on top to make it appear more expensive seem not to be a big deal for you).However the LC85 (which is basically the new LC70-80 with same specs just different name) is actually 66900/318 pounds at most dealers in Japan.Some sell for cheaper even (63700);

http://www.watanabe-mi.com/shopping/EG/04EG/tokai/LC85S.html

http://page12.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p47568691?u=rockin_co_jp

http://www.watanabe-mi.com/shopping/EG/04EG/tokai/LC85-WR.html

http://daviscoltrane.hp.infoseek.co.jp/tokai.html



I have a company too so I know we have to make money and pay the bills,but I give my potential customers the proper numbers,no matter what.
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Schocker
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Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
However the LC85 (which is basically the new LC70-80 with same specs just different name) is actually 66900/318 pounds at most dealers in Japan.Some sell for cheaper even (63700)


Using the 66,900 Yen quote, after shipping and tax the price would be ?475 which tips the difference over the ?100 mark. Once you're into a saving of three figures it's harder to disregard the import option.
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SGRocks
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess guitarslinger suddenly is not interested in this thread anymore.He made a misleading calculation.If he did it knowingly then I would not do busines with him.If he did it without knowing,it means he should study his busines more before informing potential customers.
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TSL
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on Rich, don't go into hiding on this...If you mis-spoke please explain.
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PRS24
Plucker


Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i followed this thread too because i wanted to import a guitar from japan. it is always funny to catch a dealer on a lie and see them disappear with their tail between their legs
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guitarslinger
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Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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Location: Sheffield - UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hang on a second.

With having my own business and planning my wedding in 4 weeks time you might all find it surprising that i'm not on here every night....but i am tonight, and it appears that a couple of you have some issues.

Firstly, someone mentioned lie? I think you'll find the quote i got was on an actual web site i found. In fact, i did what most customers probably do, had a look down google and this was just about the only site i could find anything half legible on. So i thought it would suffice for a rough example? Did i not say in my original post that there might well be cheaper out there? it appears that there are, someone has had a look cool.

I might have a tail between my legs mate, but i've got two big hairy balls as well! And there really is no need to start calling me a liar when I started responding to these threads due to some apparently shoddy goings on with another UK dealer and state that we're not all like that.

There has been some tarring with a wide brush going on and it aint right. This affects all UK dealers and rather than just let rubbish be spouted about our industry the good ones should be prepared to step forward. We are doing!

With regards price, you give us a landed quote and then get in touch with James in the office - he will be glad to talk to any of you about Tokai guitars - ANY guitars. And in short we'll do our best to compete with any quote. The final decision is yours.

I did a bit of research, someone else does a bit of research and what comes together is a forum of information and opinion which people will hopefully find useful - not a foum where people try to rip strips off each other when we're all on the same side? Aren't we? Enjoying Tokai guitars and for the dealers among us is making sure that every customer gets great service and value for money?

I might not be an expert in reading Japanese web pages or www.google.co.jp but I know how to look after my customers mate and we'll continue to do so.

Right - I'm off to spend some time with my gorgeous girlfriend! We get married in 4 weeks so forgive me if I don't respond within the hour.

Enjoy your guitars guys - they really are great and if you decide to buy from UK give us dealers - there are others on here as well as me and James and we'd all be willing to take a call from you guys any time.

No language web browser plug ins needed!
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http://www.richtonemusic.co.uk/news/
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