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Not flamed veneer love rock models?
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ganzua
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Joined: 19 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:08 am    Post subject: Not flamed veneer love rock models? Reply with quote

Hi there! This is my first post

Is there any love rock model with solid flamed maple top instead of a carved maple top with a flamed veneer?
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hans-j?rgen
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Joined: 21 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ask Huttonsteel, he knows all about it... Welcome to the forum! And yes, but they are expensive, old and new.
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ganzua
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hans-j?rgen wrote:
Ask Huttonsteel, he knows all about it... Welcome to the forum! And yes, but they are expensive, old and new.


Hi hans, thanks for your response;

So, I presume most of flamed tokai new models are covered with a veneer, aren't they?

Who is Huttonsteel? A forum member?

By the way, I see you are from Hamburg, do you know any tokai dealer in Germany?
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Hutton Steel
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi ganzua - welcome to the forum! There is a great deal of good advice here to be had on the subject of solid and veneer tops. Do a search on the subject and you can find old threads which have dealt with this question.

hans-jurgen is having a bit of a laugh suggesting that you ask me. There is no better a person to ask than hans-jurgen himself. Togps also knows a fair bit on the subject. After a while on the forums you will get to know everybody's little ways!

All the best!
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ganzua
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Hutton!

Thanks for replying

I did some searching before and it seems it is not clear wich models are solid tops. In this thread http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2726&highlight=veneer+tops it is stated that LS-200 and 320 are the only ones with solid flame tops.

Can you confirm that?

I wonder if plain and mahogany tops have highly figured veeners as well ??? Real G**sons are all solid top, aren't they?

Sorry for being a pain
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mercman
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New LS150's also have a solid top without the veneer

Les
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ganzua
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mercman wrote:
New LS150's also have a solid top without the veneer

Les


Thanks mercman. I'm afraid LS-150 tag is in the G**son territory.
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Skybone
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW...

The non figured, non veneer models are cheaper, as are the solid colour models. All feature a solid 2 piece maple top on (generally) 2 piece mahogany backs & mahogany necks, and IMO, the plain maple tops (like the big G used to do) make fine guitars with plenty of character.

BUT...

If you are after a flamed top, then the veneer caps DO NOT EFFECT THE TONE OF THE GUITAR. The construction of the veneer models is the same as the other models, 2 piece mahogany back, 2 piece maple top, and a thin flamed veneer on top.

I have 2 Love Rocks at the moment, one is a plain top, the other is a veneer, and IMO, the veneer model actually sounds the better of the two.
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ganzua
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Skybone;

So, plain tops are not veener covered? I don't know how the sound is affected by the veener and the glue layer, but if you crack that thin veener I guess the damage will be quite visible.

Plains with no veeners are more appealing to me
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Paladin2019
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ganzua wrote:
Hi Skybone;

So, plain tops are not veener covered? I don't know how the sound is affected by the veener and the glue layer, but if you crack that thin veener I guess the damage will be quite visible.

Plains with no veeners are more appealing to me


I've never, ever heard of a guitar with a 'cracked' veneer. I don't think it's made the way you think.

To answer your question, no the plaintops are NOT veneered - all Japanese tokais have a full thickness maple top, whether plain, veneered or whatever.

BTW, the ls150 is in Gibson territory, yes. However, ? for ? or $ for $ it's much better value. The LS120+ are quite literally Gibson Custom Shop quality for the price of a Les Paul Standard. The LS320 is higher spec than gibson's flagship 59 reissue.
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ganzua
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Paladin2019;

LS120 is veneered?
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Paladin2019
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ganzua wrote:
Hi Paladin2019;

LS120 is veneered?


I believe so, yes.
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hans-j?rgen
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ganzua wrote:
So, I presume most of flamed tokai new models are covered with a veneer, aren't they?

The newer mid-priced (LS80/85-120/125) have a veneer when they are flamed or quilted, but there are also plain top models (LS70/75/80 or the very new LS135 and LS290) without a veneer. Mahogany top LC models in winered don't have a veneer either.

You should decide first if you want a new one or also consider used guitars, because older models usually have better specs with lower model numbers due to inflation.

Furthermore a thin veneer does not change the sound, at least not if the headstock says Gibson and it's "old wood"...

Quote:
By the way, I see you are from Hamburg, do you know any tokai dealer in Germany?

There are only a few shops that actually have some, but probably forum user togps will contact you soon.
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ZZee ya, Hans-Jürgen
BLUEZZ BASTARDZZ "That lil' ol' ZZ Top cover band from Hamburg"
INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"
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ganzua
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again Paladin and Hans;

Quote:
The newer mid-priced (LS80/85-120/125) have a veneer when they are flamed or quilted, but there are also plain top models (LS70/75/80 or the very new LS135 and LS290) without a veneer.


Where do you check the specifications of all those models? Here; http://www.tokairegistry.com/tokai-info/tokai-gibson-models.html LS135 and LS290 do not appear.

Quote:
You should decide first if you want a new one or also consider used guitars


I'd like to check all new models, their prices in a japanese shop (a shop that ships to Europe) and then I'll decide if I go Tokai or anyother brand. I'm not a beginner, I'm looking a good les paul but in a budget . And I'm not in hurry.

Quote:
Furthermore a thin veneer does not change the sound, at least not if the headstock says Gibson and it's "old wood"...


As a matter of curiosity, which particular model of gibson is veneered?
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Skybone
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like Paladin said, I have never, ever seen, let alone heard a guitar with a cracked veneer. I would say that it would be very hard to do that kind of damage to a veneer on a guitar, and although I'm no expert in the placement of veneers, I would imagine that to get a veneer to stay in place on a guitar would need a damn good glue and a lot of pressure.

The plain topped guitars such as the older LS60/65 and the newer LS70/75's (I think) are simply plain maple with a coloured finish. Absolutely no veneer.
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