LoveRock string height? action!

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math2014

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Hi all,

I am debating with a few people with respect to string height/action.

My current string height at the 12th fret is LESS than 1.45mm and i was wondering if that is TOO low, and hence the reason for my fret buzzing problems.

Relief is fine, nut is fine, so i am wondering about action. What are you guys using?

Yannis
 
That does seem a bit on the low side, especially to allow the string to vibrate fully. Does it sound a bit "sitar-y"?

Just had a look at my main LR, and that's set at about 3.5-4mm @ 12th, and even then it buzzes lower down the neck. When I set my guitars up, I never use height references, I set it so that it's comfortable for me to play and so that I try to minimise any buzzes. Same with pickup heights.
 
Skybone said:
That does seem a bit on the low side, especially to allow the string to vibrate fully. Does it sound a bit "sitar-y"?

Just had a look at my main LR, and that's set at about 3.5-4mm @ 12th, and even then it buzzes lower down the neck. When I set my guitars up, I never use height references, I set it so that it's comfortable for me to play and so that I try to minimise any buzzes. Same with pickup heights.


Cheers man. Well it sounds good i suppose, although my main issue is fretbuzz when i fret power chords on the middle of the neck. It came from the factory with the action at low E at less than 1.4mm (bottom of string to top of 12th fret.). So you say its TOO low? Thats good to know, since it was driving me nuts on why i got fretbuzz.
 
I think Tokai's factory setup is always rather low for fast noodling, so for my taste and playing style I always have to raise the action.
 
hans-j?rgen said:
I think Tokai's factory setup is always rather low for fast noodling, so for my taste and playing style I always have to raise the action.

I agree. The new Tokai's I was playing on my Tokyo jaunt had low action, especially at the nut. I would have to have a new nut made on these. I do a lot of bends, and bend up vibrato, and I can't get underneath the strings and really get a good grip if the action is too low.
 
ScottA said:
I agree. The new Tokai's I was playing on my Tokyo jaunt had low action, especially at the nut. I would have to have a new nut made on these. I do a lot of bends, and bend up vibrato, and I can't get underneath the strings and really get a good grip if the action is too low.


surely the nut could just be shimmed to get the correct height and not replaced entirely...

i just measured the action on my LS75Q and on the high strings from the top of 12th fret to the bottom of the high E string is 1.5mm, and on the low E it is about 2mm and i dont get any fret buzz at all...

i play mostly classic rock with lots of pentatonic soloing in all positions on the neck and i havent had any probs with fret buzz, the guitar came straight from tokai setup like this....

i like a nice low action for my style of playing, and this LS75Q i have came setup almost perfect with only a little tweaking needed to get the guitar intonating correctly...

i see ppl saying that their action is about 4 to 5mm @12th fret, that just wouldnt be acceptable for me, maybe for strumming chords, but thats about it, everyone is different i suppose, but i know for sure i wouldnt be comfortable with an action as high as that!!!!
 
Well, 2mm E, 1.5mm e sound fine... I got less that 1.4mm E, and less than 1.2mm e. Hence i got buzz when i fret chords in the middle of the neck. But 5mm is too high yes.
 
If it is buzzing around the middle of the neck, it may need some more relief by adjusting the truss rod.

Maybe a small tweak may be in order.

Peter
 
stratmoto said:
If it is buzzing around the middle of the neck, it may need some more relief by adjusting the truss rod.

Maybe a small tweak may be in order.

Peter

Did that already, i added 1/8th of a turn of relief. It only buzzes if i fret on lets say the 8th fret on the EAD strings... so my mechanics knowledge says... too low action, because it used to buzz on the 1-5 frets, but after the relief, it doesnt buzz there, just on the middle of the neck.
 
OK :D

Makes sense. As you can obviously understand, setup is an interacion of a lot of small adjustments. One thing certainly affects another.

The Dan Erlewine DVD shows him playing it with a capo on the first fret and lowering the action until buzzing just starts. With the capo off, you are fairly well guaranteed to be buzz free. He then twiddles the thumbwheels a bit more to get a low buzz free action.

Maybe you need to come up on the bass side thumbwheel a whisker. I am certainly no shredder, I am probably a reasonable chord banger though and if a barred A or B chord buzzes, I check the neck releif first. About .010" on "F" type guits and .005" ~ .010" on "G" type suits my style.

Finding "your" setup is part of the fun> :D

Peter
 
Neck relief is always the starting point for setting your string height. Put a capo on the first fret. Fret the low E at the fret where the neck joins the body. At the fret which is mid-way between these two points place a business card between the top of the fretwire and the bottom of the string. Adjust your truss rod until the gap between the bottom of the string and the top of the fretwire is the same as the business card.

After setting the relief you can adjust your string height to suit. Probably it is best to take the action down until unacceptable buzzing is heard then just raise it slowly until the buzzing is eliminated or an 'acceptable' amount of buzzing is heard. Remember that a slight buzz will probably not sound through your amp. It can be a bit fiddly to get your action right but there is nothing better than a well set-up guitar - there is also nothing worse than a badly set up guitar.

Also, remember never to use the truss rod to adjust action. It should only ever be used to set neck relief. Happy tinkering!
 
Hutton Steel said:
Neck relief is always the starting point for setting your string height. Put a capo on the first fret. Fret the low E at the fret where the neck joins the body. At the fret which is mid-way between these two points place a business card between the top of the fretwire and the bottom of the string. Adjust your truss rod until the gap between the bottom of the string and the top of the fretwire is the same as the business card.

After setting the relief you can adjust your string height to suit. Probably it is best to take the action down until unacceptable buzzing is heard then just raise it slowly until the buzzing is eliminated or an 'acceptable' amount of buzzing is heard. Remember that a slight buzz will probably not sound through your amp. It can be a bit fiddly to get your action right but there is nothing better than a well set-up guitar - there is also nothing worse than a badly set up guitar.

Also, remember never to use the truss rod to adjust action. It should only ever be used to set neck relief. Happy tinkering!

Cheers mate,

I ve already did that and i think my relief is spot on now. It is now simply a question of action i think, since 1.4mm on the Bass E , maybe is TOO low for action. I played today an Epi Elitist, and the action was 2.5mm + , and it still buzzed when i played powerchords up on the neck, so maybe its a combination of low action and me beeing to anal about buzzing.

Yannis
 
Give this a read for basic guitar setup for this body style.

http://www.gibson.com/magazines/amplifier/1997/10/tipfile.html
 
JSD said:
Give this a read for basic guitar setup for this body style.

http://www.gibson.com/magazines/amplifier/1997/10/tipfile.html


Yep thanks man, i already did that, and also bought Erlewine's guitar repair book. :D. I think i am coming to terms with my action and sound ...todays jam was AWESOME.

BTW i posted about cracked pup mounting rings... the perpetrator was... overtightened screws. I loosed 2 of them about 1 turn or so... and the ring followed better the body contour.
 
My mid range LP Custom has some fret buzz

It is about 1.5mm on the e at 12th ( Gibson site says 1.1mm min)

and about 2mm on the E at 12th ( Gibson site says 1.9mm min)

Should I raise the bridge ?
 
Just a week ago I lowered the action on my LS85Q by 1 mm at the bridge position, corresesponding with .5 mm at the twelfth fret.
I thought that Ishibashi, where a bought it (no seller of Tokai anymore..) did a proper set up, but the whole setup could be improved to quite some extent.
The action is now 1.8 mm at the high e and 2.2 mm at the low E string and I am very comfortable with it. No fretbuzz or rattle anywhere whatsoever.
 
How are you guys measuring?

I put a ruler on the top of the fret, 90 degree angle to the fingerboard, and then mearsue to the bottom of the un-depressed string. Are you all measuring from the fret, or the fingerboard?

I generally measure in 64ths of an inch (Yankee), and it seems Gibs come factory 4 to 5 on the high E, and just about 6 on the low E. My MIK Tokai FB-53 came like that as well.

Personally, I like 3 (64ths) on the high side, and 4 on the low side, if I can get it. My callousses are a bit more forward on my middle two fingers than most of my friends hands, so if they action isn't low I have the opposite problem of most people. I catch the next higher string from underneath when bending, and stand the chance of noise on release. I do better if my fingertip goes over the next higher string.

Would appreciate any replys.


BTW, just "top wound" my LP for the first time before Fridays gig. Definately gave a more "buttery" feel to the neck! Thanks fellow forum members for the idea, I never thought of it!
 
Dear TSL,

I measure the same way as you ( on the 12th fret)

Gibson's settings are at
http://www.gibson.com/reference/infoguides/7.html

> from the top of the 12th fret on the underside of the string
> Electric Guitar Treble side 3/64 inch = 1.19mm
> Bass side 5/64 inch = 1.98mm

My Tokai came somewhat set to those points, but it has Fret Buzz on some strings in the middle of the fret board.


However I think I will change to "9" strings as I like them for bends. Then from past experience with my Tele, its a totally new ballgame and everything will need to be reset.
 
Hi TSL,

I am measuring in the same way as described by you. I can?t however understand that Gibson specifies 3/16 inch (1.20 mm) for the high e string.
One of the reasons for getting rid of my Gibson Les Paul Studio was that I couldn?t get the strings any lower than the height the Golden Gate Bridge unless I accepted all the buzz on top of it.
No offense for Gibson, some of them have good action too, but on my LPS I just couldn?t get it right (at least it did not work for me).
 
Yeah, I have found MOST guitars of any brand have a tough time making suggested guidelines for string height. I will tolerate a slight bit of buz, as long as it doesn't effect the sustain on bends.

To speak in mm, I really want 1 on the high side, and then 2 or so on the low strings. That shouldn't be that much to ask for. I can't be the only person out there with a a callous closer to the nail than the plam side of the finger!

On Strat type guitars, I will play SLIGHTLY higher action, to get a bit of "spank" out of the strings, as I view Strats as naturally more percussive than Gib style instruments. On a LP I really want that "buttery" feel.
 

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