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loverock, reborn, sg? need guidance on a gib tokai
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chu71
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 131
Location: madrid

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:42 am    Post subject: loverock, reborn, sg? need guidance on a gib tokai Reply with quote

i got a serious itch for a lp or sg tokai...i ve read all threads about these, and they ve proved to be very useful as usual, but i could use with some precise advice.
first of all, i ve never owned any gibson or gibson like guitars. the closest is, i guess, a dean caddy select, to give u an idea.
after seeing the comparison between tkai strats and fender spender ones. im decided to go tokai too for a gibson type model. heard toais are much better than epiphones, for example.

but theres so many lp and sg replicas around by tokai that i thought i d ask u guys. also if u guys can hook me up with a nice eur dealer...
loverocks are pretty clear as the number on the model sort of equals the price in yen...but sg s?

i d spend around 500 eur shipping included, to the most. what would be the specs id have access to in that price range?
what sg model shud i go for? and LR?

happy to hear your thoughts, im pretty open...

thanks all

p.s. i would look at used guitars too, in case there s any u may want to get rid of.
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hans-j?rgen
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Joined: 21 Feb 2005
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Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
heard toais are much better than epiphones, for example.

Not necessarily, because both companies offer a wide range of models, e.g. the Epiphone Elitists which are said to have quite similar specs to the Japanese Tokais. I never played one though, so it's only hearsay.

There is an official Tokai distributor in the UK, so there are several dealers (online or with a shop) that have Love Rocks as well as SG copies.

The price tag in the model number is true for almost all Tokais, so a SG70 has an official list price in Japan of 70,000 Yen. If you order it over there, you should be able to get one at your price limit, if I'm not mistaken. The SG70 has a mahogany body and neck with two Gotoh humbuckers, don't know which neck size, but probably a fatter one than the 1960 originals.
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GStormcrow
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Joined: 05 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you were willing to go a little higher you could get this:

http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2384&item=7339548201&rd=1

Very nice guitar, great price, good reputable seller. Only thing is that it ships from Japan so you might have to pay import tax. Would be worth considering spending the extra bit of cash though
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QuattroSte
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Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 211
Location: Wicklow, Ireland!

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with GStormcrow! It may cost you 100 euro more but you shouldn't be dissappointed.

I played a Gibson LP Studio today in a music shop and it simply didn't compare to my LS50. It was the basic model but even the finish was bad. (Not slating all Gibbys, just this one!)
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chu71
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 131
Location: madrid

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks guys appreciate ...well i d seen this one, but i dont like the fact that pup was replaced, i like to keep guitars original, with their flaw and their qualities of own. anyway it does look like a good deal for sure. thanks

i ve contacted the benelux importer of tokai , and sttill waiting for an answer, so i finally turned to JSD shack, ship rates from CAN to Spain suck bigtime but hey what the hell. uk dealers seem to come off more expensive, and Kevin from JSD was very helpful and explained everything i needed to know .think i ll be going for this one;

http://www.jsdguitarshack.com/Tokai_Love_Rock_RB.html

this one looks great too, but i dig more the looks of covered pups than the regular open humbuckers

http://www.jsdguitarshack.com/Tokai_Love_Rock_FTS.html

Hey QUATTROSTE, that s what i need to hear, comoarisons btween Gibs and Tokais, cos i dont have any Tokai Love Rocks around to even see how they are...
so here goes my final question; as JSD told me, theres a tokai supplier for Canada only. this guy is good, cos i have the hummingbird reissue which comes from this same source (canada supplier) and it s kicks a55
but i d like to know jhow these "Canadian" MIK Tokais compare to the JApanese models, or to the LR50, 60, 80, 200, etc, that qUATTROSTE mentioned. to get an idea of where mine stands along the tokai range...


thanks guys
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ian
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Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 834
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Chu71, how's things in sunny Madrid? OK, three things....(1) if you?ve always played Fender-style guitars then you may find Les Paul a shock, tone is much darker & deeper ? I know some Fender guys hate it and never get used to it ? so be careful of that. (2)those guitars in your link from JSD are Korean, & that?s pretty big difference to the 1982 Japanese LS50 suggested by Gstormcrow ? I don?t want to get into the old debate about whether MIJ is really so much better than MIK, but if we?re comparing new MIK from JSD with that 82 LS50 from Japanoldguitar then for me it?s no contest, I?d take the LS50 like a shot (regardless of that Kramer pickup ? easy to buy original Gotoh pups on eBay now, cheap!). (3)Check carefully about Korean ALS48 Love Rock, because we had a very revealing thread here about a year ago where a guy bought a new ALS48 & found out construction is Plywood (not solid mahogany!), so check that.

Bottom line ? yikes, I'd get the 82 LS50! Or if $580 plus shipping & taxes is too much on that LS50, then note that solid colours like black often come cheaper ie for early Love Rocks c.1980-85 .

Ian.
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chu71
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 131
Location: madrid

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

all good Ian thanks yourself? i was in san sebastian last week watching concerts from the jazz festival. you guys in london-south england area should try popping over (there were aalready loads of english and aussies) it aint far from u guys at all. awesome place very friendly ppl the basque,awesome food (best in spain probably) awesome festival. watched maceo parker for 2.5 hrs free on the beach. and van morrison two shows in a row the following day (not free he he) theres 7 acts everyday, 2 of em totally free on the beach.

anyway i ll get to the point sorry got overxcited, first vacation in a loooooooong time lol!!!

regarding my purchase (i havent paid yet but gave my word and that s like done to me). i lt comes at 700 usd insured shipped to madrid w/ deluxe tokai case....if i hit or missed will be seen. i ll only pull out or fight my money back if specs clearly arent the agreed.
i looked at jsd as i d heard good feedback on em and their tokais in this forum. didnt read that thread Ian as i wasnt even playing gtr a year ago...do u have a link to it?

*******All forum readers please dont get this thread wrong im in no way questioning jsd products, Kevin s been top service so far, we re just talking...havent even paid for it yet buying tokais for a newbie goes like this i guess, u need lots if advice even guidance. again, Kevin was great to deal with, even on off work hours answered inmediately to every question
and i gave my word which is firm.

i d seen this one on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7310465680&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
i understand a 91 guitar will always be better than a 2005, but i dont know, it didnt really turn me on for my first les paul type gtr. plus the note and serial number on the jsd guitars are the same than on the hummingbird reissue i bought from myrareguitars.com, which has turned out an AWESOME guitar hands down. so i trusted. it reads "Manufactured under licence for Tokai Gakki Co. Ltd made in Korea serial # 04#####"
the h bird is no cheap guitar i tell u, or at least doesnt sound cheap at all, believe me. so i thought same source, same standards therefore the jsd guitars will rock too. im pretty optimistic in fact.

as for the oldie, i bought one of my tokai strats, an 81 silverstar that s a beautiful looking sounding lady, from hiro, the seller of the 82 lr on feebay. highly recommendable dealer, he s a gentleman. but isnt the LR 50 50000 yen in theory? are even 50s better than a standard gibson LP like quattrotoste tried?? thouht 50s were lower-ish tokai range...anyway i missed that one...it does look awesome... DAMN

i ll post thoughts on the guitar once i ve had some fboard time on it.
im not a strat guy really, i been off playing for 10 yrs, so im now discovering the variety of electric gtrs...i had only an esp telecaster for 13 yrs, barely untouched...so im sure ill dig the LP flavour

cheers and sorry for the blah blah blah, had 2 beers just a while ago lol
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ian
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Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 834
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never been to San Sebastian or Jazz festival, but was over in Madrid a couple of times in May ? great city, liked it a lot (tried a very nice Flamenco guitar from a private maker ?1200euro though, ouch!).

OK, here?s the thread re Plywood on MIK Tokais, you need to read all 4 pages (took us until page 2 before most of us realised it was plywood) http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3063&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=als48&start=15.

I?m sure JSD is fine dealer & your promise is commendable, but maybe not if it means buying the wrong guitar. Of course, new MIK ALS48 could be great guitar (whatever it?s construction) ? I?ve never played one so can?t say personally.

I?m probably biased because I always like older guitars, but 1982 LS50 wasn?t really a ?lower? model ? main thing that made it cheaper was just the 3-piece top, but even that?s solid 1cm thick maple & often shows lovely natural grain & colour, otherwise it?s hardly any different from a Reborn (comparable to Gibson imho). Of course I?ve never seen or played that LS50 either, so I?m just going on sellers photos ? but I see there?s a familiar looking bid on it now ? ask seller if it?s all working perfectly & if he can recommend it for good tone, see what he says, see if he's enthusiastic about it, or if he's just "luke warm" about it. Also saw this on UK eBay if you don?t mind white/cream custom, may go cheap (low cost for postage & Tax from UK to Spain) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2384&item=7340178055&rd=1 .

Ian.
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chu71
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 131
Location: madrid

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks a lot m8. very good info. well on the new MIK deal, if it s plywood then im obviously off, although the sellers site claims these models to be NALS-48, solid mahog body with a flame maple top... but every catalog or info i ve seen on ALS48 models say they re alder back, flame sycamore top. also, the 48 denotes 48000yen mrsp in Japan, and theres no tokai 48k yen models that are mahog made...
if that s the case i obv wont buy it. thats why im bidding on the oldie...if i had to spend more than my budget on a new tokai i d expect it to be mahog at least, if not, i d buy an oldie looking at the prices where they roll
we ll see how it goes....i ll ask my seller ab this. the only possibility i see that this may not be pwood is the fact that JSDmentioned there s a supllier for Tokai exlusively in Canada, who gets the instruments made to his specs on requests...

sh1t im lost now...
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ian
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Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 834
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chu71 ? I expect JSD is fine, but take a look at this thread & see what JSD says in reply to ?togps? regarding what appears to be a number of unofficial Korean Tokai copies on sale from Canada ? bit of a ?can of worms? there (if you know that expression) http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3818&start=0 .

But hey, if you?ve only been playing a year then what?s wrong with the guitar you already have? Yeah I know buying is addictive but you can?t play 2 or 3 at once you know . What sort of amp are you using, what sort of stuff are you playing?

Ian.
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chu71
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 131
Location: madrid

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well i played since i was 10, the pretty much gave up in my early 20s...used to study classical so that s what i was playing, neverdcould afford an electric by myself. i can now, so im like a kid in a candy store...10 yrs later im back playing

anyway i play diff stuff, but i just like trying different gtrs and tones...at the mom i have a fender blues junior amp, which is nice for old gtrs and bluesy sound , but does fall short for crunch tones

anyway i ll get an oldie, i cant be bothered with all this fake or not fake plot. no one seems to have a clear word on the origins of these new lrocks. still have to hear from my counterparty though

thanks all for your help.
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JSD
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plywood??? Come on! Why are you spreading this BS?

KOREAN TOKIAS ARE NOT MADE FROM PLYWOOD!!!

Ian if you'd be so kind as to enlighten me as to what info "togps" has I'd really like to hear it as he wouldn't share that info with me.
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mr.shiney
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Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:08 pm    Post subject: MIK Love Rock Reply with quote

OK Here we go again ...I ve got a MIK LR that I bought last year, I changed the Bridge pickup and added locking tuners, not because it needed it but just because I wanted to. Now I dont own any Gibson guits or harley Davidsons Because I dont like GETTIN RIPPED OFF JUST FOR A NAME. But I did have my mates 78 LP for about 6 months and I can tell you it wasnt ALL THAT... damn thing wouldnt stay in tune. I have A/B My MIk LR with my USA Hamer custom HAND MADE and there isnt that much difference. OH yea the Hamer looks totally awsome, but I really dig the sound of the MIK LR, there are no flaws in the construction and it FEELS GREAT WHEN IN HAND. I always get complements on it and I am not afraid to take it to the Bar on Jam nite... And Oh yea... My Yamaha roadstar will smoke any stock Harley Road King or Fatboy
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luis
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Joined: 15 Sep 2001
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are some plywood made korean models(lower models) as far as there are some real wood korean models(alder body mostly.But there are some correct specs guitars too.It depends on how educated you are about Tokai.Check catalogs for this,2.000 specially but 2.004 has changed specifications in some models so beware.
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ian
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Joined: 13 Aug 2003
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Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mr Shiney ? I'm not knocking licensed MIK guitars ... what I said was personally I'd strongly prefer an old MIJ LS50 instead of new MIK ALS48 ... and then added ?I'm probably biased, because I always prefer older guitars?. Prefer 1982 LS50, that's all .

Hi JSD ? nobody is spreading BS ? I?m sure you?ve read that thread on the MIK ALS48 bought by OakleyVisor, in which case you?ll know his guitar was actually specified as plywood in the catalogue. Clear from links in that thread that Seoul appears to have a problem with unnamed ?back-street? makers producing all sorts of deliberately faked guitars. That's just a history that any potential buyer needs to be aware of .

I know you said your MIK Tokais were DEFINITELY genuine, licensed by Tokai Japan, made from correct woods & even custom made with improved specs etc., that?s why I pointed Mr Chu71 to your reassurance on that thread where you challenged doubts raised by togps .

I?ll PM you re what private info togps either has, or does not have, fair enough?

Ian.
ps: chu71 , did you win that LS50 in the end?


Last edited by ian on Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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