Uncertain about my Burny...

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larseko

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Hi,

last autumn I bought a Burny Super Grade supposedly from 1983 and MIJ. As I hadn't done my research properly, I believed the guy who sold it to me, but after some closer inspection and googling I realised not everything was as it should be.

First of all, the trussrod cover has got three screws and the ridges on the side. Second, the body is three-piece, and the neck is a two-piece neck. Third, when I brought the guitar to a guitar tech to get it intonated a month ago (yes, all too late!) the bridge appears to have been mounted some millimetres too close to the neck, making it impossible to intonate the low e-string 100% without relocating the bridge. Fourth, the fingerboard/neck is put on in a hurry, according to the same guitar tech, making it hard not to get dead spots on the 19.-22. frets. At least when the frets are filed down evenly. He would have to file a lot of the uppermost frets to get away with the last dead spots...

I have some pics here:
http://www.restless.no/Members/larseko/burny-lp59-sg1983/

My question is what did I actually buy here? Alright, the guitar works and plays alright, but I find it annoying that I can't intonate it and have dead spots or what you call it. Is this actually made in Korea? A bad batch? Of course, I paid quite an amount for this guitar because I believed it to be a Japan model, as I'm not a very experienced player.
 
well, that would have to be the cleanest 1983 guitar I`ve ever seen. The Suoer Grades have been reissued, there some in the local pawn shop...occasionally they get new stuff too and the ones they have are new. Are the electronics as sparkly clean as the rest of the guitar?
I don`t have catalogs going back to 1983 but these days only the high end models are MIJ, the others are not.
Lots of folks are trying to take advantage of the fact that players are looking for older MIJs, so buyer beware...happening a lot in Japan too. We really have to be careful these days. So kids, the lesson of this thread is... do your homework eh.
 
I don?t know anything about Burny & can?t say what?s right or wrong on those guitars, & for me that applies to most MIJ brands :( . Thanks to Ned, & early contributors like Peter, Loverocker, & Supernout, this Forum provides much more detail on Tokai ? even apart from Tokai quality, it?s also much easier to identify exactly what you are buying (especially on vintage examples) :-? .

Ian.
 
The Burnys made in the Fuji Gen Gakki plant in Japan had fret-edge binding, which seems to be missing from your example. They were for a short time made in the Tokai Gakki plant, so that is a possibility, however I doubt that any Japanese manufacturer would make the mistakes you mentioned.

My guess is that it's a Korean guitar, or even more likely, Chinese.
 
Ok, thanks for the replies! I'll definitely confront the seller with these things. Since I bought it here in Norway, I have 2 years to make claims because of defects etc. And this is a fraud, as he actually sold it as a MIJ Model. It wasn't cheap either, so I'll try to follow this up. But I don't find it very pleasant. That's for sure. Will try to keep a friendly tone at first, though.

I'll probably post about my very strange Burny SG as well!

Best regards,

Lars Erik
 
A '83 Burny should have a bell trussrod cover.I had two 80's with that ones with no serial number at all and they were japanese for sure.That 3 screws covers seems new late 90's-200's to me.
Be aware about new Burnys as only RLG-90 is from Japan.I'd apply same rule as Tokais: something new under 70 is not japanese.
 
And sneakyjapan, that's right, the electronics are clean. Not noisy, anyway. There's no fret binding.

Tonetimes: Do you really think it could be Chinese? Wouldn't it have one of those palace/mushroom shaped trussrod covers then?

Argh. Annoying business.
 
larseko said:
Tonetimes: Do you really think it could be Chinese? Wouldn't it have one of those palace/mushroom shaped trussrod covers then?

The trussrod cover would be easy to replace. That trussrod cover is somewhat consistant with a late 80's/90's one but it's cut off at the nut to allow it to fit from what I see.
 
20 century boy said:
ToneTimes2 said:
The Burnys made in the Fuji Gen Gakki plant in Japan had fret-edge binding,

The moste expensive MIJ models have but many MIJ models have not.

I wouldn't call my 90s RLC-75 one of their most expensive models and it has it. I've actually never seen a mij Burny that did not have it. You may be right though.
 
Pretty much any Gibson I've ever played has the fret-edge binding, aside from the lower priced models like Juniors. Don't get too hung up on the binding covering the frets - I don't think it's that big of a deal myself. It does look classy though. OK, I like how it feels, too. :)

My biggest concern with your guitar is the trussrod cover. That shape I believe is correct for the mid 80's, but if I'm not mistaken the MIJ model only had two screws, not three. I might be wrong there... I believe if indeed MIJ, the trussrod cover should look like this:
RLG_2.jpg


Another concern is the creme coloured control cavity covers on the back of the guitar. I'd expect those to be black.

I think the guitar looks fantastic, bummer about the bridge situation, though, I'm kinda surprised by that.

Jim
 
Jim: Yes, that trussrod cover is what worries me too. And it's not only the shape. As you say there are two screws on the MIJ ones, but three here. In fact, a 2-screw trc wouldn't fit, as there is no wood where the lower screw should go! So the trussrod appearently is not covered by any wood at all! (Not 100% sure here, but I suspect the only thing covering it is the nut and the fretboard. This makes sense, as it would simplifly the construction process, or what?

And yes, it's a shame, because I think the guitar looks great, but I really paid a bit (could almost have bought a secondhand LP Studio for the same amount of money in Norway, and that with a case). I will confront the seller tonight, when I get the guts to push the send-button.

:-?
 
the new models in my catalog have 3 screws and precisely when the change from 2 was made I`m not sure.
 
Ok, so I wrote a long e-mail to the fellow selling me the guitar, and got a fairly informative answer back. He seems to be quite knowledgeable about these guitars (and should be, since he imports them regularly second hand from a shop in Japan), and I think I'll settle with that, but it would be ok with some objective opinions too... :) So basically he is saying:

- Burny produced a range of models from LPS-40 up to LPS-110 in Japan. These were standard '59 replicas. In addition there were some master built models that are more rare.

- Burny never had their own factory, but has had their instrumenst produced in several factories. Until 1980 they were produced at Fuji gen Gakki and Tokai Gakki(?), while they later were produced mostly at Nippon Gakki and Matsumuko when Fernandes took over.

- Burny had bell shaped trussrod cover througout 1980, while Greco used it throughout 1981. After this Burny added the ridges.

- Multiple piece body and neck is not unusual on the Japanese guitars - including the higher end models.

- He dates my guitar around the middle of the eighties and produced on the Nippon Gakki. It is laminated in much the same way as Yamaha SL (Studio Lord) and has umbraco truss rod adjustment.

- The model, he says, is LPS-55F, suggesting a 55k yen price in the year of production and "F" for the flamed "sycamore" (I think?) maple top. This is a real flamed maple top, and not photo laminate(?). I think that looks so too, but I'm no expert.

- He claims that intonation- and setup problems aren't uncommon on these guitars. Bridge studs can have changed under the pressure of strings, etc, wood is dynamic etc.

- The LPS-95/100-models were priced at about 50% more at the same time.

I haven't got the answer on the three trussrodcover screws, though...?

So should I still worry about this? If this is right, I have no problems using this guitar. It is alright, but I was worried about that fretboard business. The intonation problem isn't really a big one... I don't go far up on the bass e anyway.

This is actually a bit fun too, learning about all these guitars... :)
 
sneakyjapan said:
the new models in my catalog have 3 screws and precisely when the change from 2 was made I`m not sure.

What do you mean by "new" models? 2005?

By the way, it doesn't look like there has been a mushroom-shaped trussrod cover on the headstock, as the screw holes doesn't look like they have the same exact same placement... and it is not a modified 2-screw ridge-trussrod cover either, since the shape is different, especially at the top...

Hm. Did anyone see a LPS-55F in any catalogue? Is it possible to get any of those catalogues from the eighties?
 
as far back as 1997 they had 3 screws. I don`t have catalogs going back further than that.
The seller is right about the 55, many Japanese makers include the price in the model number, so it would have sold for 55,000 minus the standard 20% off list shops give in Japan. So, yes the 95 and 100 models would have sold for more.
Not sure about how common multi piece bodies are on higher end models... the upper level MIJs from the 70s and 80s that I have are 2 or 3 pieces... I suppose we could define 3 as multi. I`ve seen some older Greco 900 and up models with one piece bodies.
If you like the guitar...why worry? `course the intonation thing is not good though.
 
sneakyjapan said:
If you like the guitar...why worry? `course the intonation thing is not good though.

I keep telling me that myself, but when you first get that sneaking thought into your head, it is nice to get it away! :) Anyway, the seller claimed that the intonation problem also was fairly common on guitars with that vintage tuneomatic-bridge and recommendet I got one of those Nashville style modern bridges, which has got some more room for adjustment. He claimed to have done this to solve the same problem on difficult guitars, customshop Japanese as well as on old Gibsons...
 

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