Are there mistakes in the LoveRock Serial Numbers???

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looknow

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The guitar in question is a Tokai LoveRock ls50,Set Neck,goto paf,3 piece top,small 50 sticker on back of headstock,etc.The serial number is;01*****.The guitar was bought from a reputable Japanese dealer who sells lots of Tokai's.He categorically states that it is a 1980 Model,not a 2001 model.Your Serial Numbers however imply that it is a 2001 model.Yet very importantly in your specs for the 2001 model you also say that the ls50 has a Bolt On Neck which obviously does not fit in with my model.I have also been in touch with another Japanese dealer who says that the 01***** Serials were in fact used in 1980 and have seen quite a few others advertised by reputable dealers with 01***** stating that they are indeed 1980 models.So is this fact missing from your listings where you state that 80's models(up to 1989) must have a 0 as the second digit as opposed to 01,I have also been in touch with Tokai directly and am awaiting their reply,Many Thanks
 
You won't get anything out of tokai - between the Registry and this forum we probably know more than they do!

There is some overlap with the serial numbers. Someone was working on a clarifying system, but he's left the forum now. :( I can't really help with the early serial numbers but someone else will probably be along shortly who can.
 
Thanks for info,I was really hoping for a reply from Tokai though.The guy I bought the guitar off in Japan is adamant that it is 1980 and he has some good recommendations from others in the Registry.
 
Hi Looknow,

Regarding the S/N - I?ve noticed this before, and I think you may be correct.

Tokai?s system of serial numbering works fine, until it comes to years with a zero, eg 1980, 1990, 2000, at which point it leads to confusion.

I don?t suppose you bought your guitar from ?Guitargai? by any chance? Because, he recently had an eBay advert describing a ?2001 Love Rock, SN 01xxxxx? ? but that guitar looked so much like a 1980 that I emailed him asking if he was sure of the date & S/N ? he didn?t reply.

OK, I?ll probably get shot here, & somebody will correct me, but my theory:-? they began quite logically in 1978 & 79 with the numbers 80xxxxx, 90xxxxx (& may have used 70xxxxx in 1977?). When they got to 1980 they should logically have used 00xxxxx, however, the leading zeros looked confusing, so they tried a new system beginning 01xxxxx ? I won?t guess at what the first two digits meant, but there are a several obvious logical possibilities. However, by 1981 or 1982 they realised the original system was better, and from 1982 they continued as originally intended with 20xxxxx etc.

In summary ? if the condition & features of your guitar all appear early (eg double ring tuners, Gotoh Vintage PAF MK1 pups etc.) then I reckon it probably is a 1980-81 guitar :-? .

Ian.
Ps:- in the Registry it says (paraphrasing) ? ?LS50 & LS55 briefly offered with a Bolt On neck in 1999?. But apart from that, all Love Rocks definitely have a Set neck (inc. LS50) :-? .
 
i think by 81 some of the love rock had single ring kluson tuners. mine does, and has the same type serial number scheme. it's obviously an 81 ls-80.
 
Hi Lasher,

Yep, quite right :-........those double ring Klusons are seen as original equip?t on almost all 1979 & 80 Les Paul?s. But by 1981 they are almost always single ring. At least, that?s true for all the Tokai LP?s I?ve ever see :-? .

Ian.
 
Thanks Guys,help is much appreciated.No Ian I did not buy it off "guitargai" but I also saw that one and was tempted,it looked nice.I bought mine from a really helpful and knowledgable seller,you probably know,Hiro of "japanoldguitar".He has handled over 100 Tokai,s and is a reliable seller.He gave me this info concerning serial numbers;
1979 - 90*****
1980 - 00***** or 01*****
1990 - 90***** or 00*****
2000 - 00*****
2001 - 01*****

I am sure the guitar in question is an older 1980 model,I just need some confirmation regarding these numbers.Fender Straight forward,Gibson(early) ????? Tokai,getting there,Cheers Everyone. :D
 
Ahh.....Mr Hiro :D !... Yes, I totally agree, he's a really nice bloke, & a completely honest dealer (I bought an LS60 from him last year) - definitely one of my favourite eBay sellers (& probably the best from Japan) - if he says it's 1980, then I'm sure it is 8) .

All the best,

Ian.
 
It makes me wonder... I have a LS-50(?) 3 piece top, set neck with INK stamped serial #01*****, double ring tuners that say Tokai on them, PAF pickups with "GOTO" ink stamped on back and both coils have hex wrench adjustable pole pieces. No info in pickup cavities. Would this be a 2001 model?
Thanks for any information and I would like to say that this is my first post in a forum that I have enjoyed for a long time.
 
Hi Loudmouse,

Welcome to posting on the Forum :-? ! Well, I?ve never seen those double ring tuners on any Tokai after 1980 (or 81 at the latest). I assume your guitar is a Love Rock (because a Reborn or Reborn Old would clearly be pre 81)? OK, well??.if the tuners are original then I think your guitar must be 1980-81 :-? . Anyone else want to shoot that down :eek: ?

Ian.
 
Thanks Ian, and yes, it is a Love Rock model. The thing that had me second guessing the year was the black inked serial number. It doesn't look like the "regular" stamped numbers that I see on guitars on E-Bay.
Thanks again, and I'd like to say that this is indeed my second post in a forum that I have enjoyed for a long time.
 
Everybody who ownes one of these "special" 80/81 tokai les pauls does know the truth about them. :wink:

The serial usually starts with an inked black digit of 010... for 1980 and 110... for 1981.

...so what would you do if you owned a factory without enough production capacity to satisfy the temporarily increasing orders of customers in time?
 
HHMMM, Guess I'm not one of the everybodies that knows all about the "special" 80/81 love rocks. I always assumed mine was a 2001 model. Supernout seems to vaguely say that they were made in a different factory? Where can I find more info on this specific model? Can we be a little less small and a little more precise?
 
Hi guys,

I reacon your guitar is 2001.
This could be fun so...
To get a date you need more than the first 2 digits - 4 would be enough.
lets say 1977 says 7001xxx, 1978 = 8003xxx, 1979 = 9005xxx
1980=0009xxx, 1981=1014xxx etc
Now 1980 models are screened as "Reborn Old", the "Love Rock debuted in 1981 and the truss rod cover was a Gibson "bell" style.
Yours should have a "bullet" shape with 2 screws if it's 2001.
hope this adds fuel to the fire

regards
Peter Mac
 
I always thought my Love Rock was made in 2001. Serial # 0100259. I've never seen any information about a "special" 1981 model with an ink stamped serial number like mine. (other than Supernout's post).
 
Hi again,

Just for the record, Tokai did not use Ink stamped serial numbers until the late '90s. All serial numbers on LS/TLS/ALS were impressed - similar to the "Made in USA" on the back of 70's+80's Gibsons.
Any Love Rocks with 01 prefixes are new models - not from 1980 or 1981

Peter Mac
 

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