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Are there mistakes in the LoveRock Serial Numbers???
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looknow
Plucker


Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:14 am    Post subject: Are there mistakes in the LoveRock Serial Numbers??? Reply with quote

The guitar in question is a Tokai LoveRock ls50,Set Neck,goto paf,3 piece top,small 50 sticker on back of headstock,etc.The serial number is;01*****.The guitar was bought from a reputable Japanese dealer who sells lots of Tokai's.He categorically states that it is a 1980 Model,not a 2001 model.Your Serial Numbers however imply that it is a 2001 model.Yet very importantly in your specs for the 2001 model you also say that the ls50 has a Bolt On Neck which obviously does not fit in with my model.I have also been in touch with another Japanese dealer who says that the 01***** Serials were in fact used in 1980 and have seen quite a few others advertised by reputable dealers with 01***** stating that they are indeed 1980 models.So is this fact missing from your listings where you state that 80's models(up to 1989) must have a 0 as the second digit as opposed to 01,I have also been in touch with Tokai directly and am awaiting their reply,Many Thanks
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Paladin2019
Guitar God


Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1976
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You won't get anything out of tokai - between the Registry and this forum we probably know more than they do!

There is some overlap with the serial numbers. Someone was working on a clarifying system, but he's left the forum now. I can't really help with the early serial numbers but someone else will probably be along shortly who can.
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looknow
Plucker


Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for info,I was really hoping for a reply from Tokai though.The guy I bought the guitar off in Japan is adamant that it is 1980 and he has some good recommendations from others in the Registry.
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ian
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Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 834
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Looknow,

Regarding the S/N - I?ve noticed this before, and I think you may be correct.

Tokai?s system of serial numbering works fine, until it comes to years with a zero, eg 1980, 1990, 2000, at which point it leads to confusion.

I don?t suppose you bought your guitar from ?Guitargai? by any chance? Because, he recently had an eBay advert describing a ?2001 Love Rock, SN 01xxxxx? ? but that guitar looked so much like a 1980 that I emailed him asking if he was sure of the date & S/N ? he didn?t reply.

OK, I?ll probably get shot here, & somebody will correct me, but my theory:-? they began quite logically in 1978 & 79 with the numbers 80xxxxx, 90xxxxx (& may have used 70xxxxx in 1977?). When they got to 1980 they should logically have used 00xxxxx, however, the leading zeros looked confusing, so they tried a new system beginning 01xxxxx ? I won?t guess at what the first two digits meant, but there are a several obvious logical possibilities. However, by 1981 or 1982 they realised the original system was better, and from 1982 they continued as originally intended with 20xxxxx etc.

In summary ? if the condition & features of your guitar all appear early (eg double ring tuners, Gotoh Vintage PAF MK1 pups etc.) then I reckon it probably is a 1980-81 guitar .

Ian.
Ps:- in the Registry it says (paraphrasing) ? ?LS50 & LS55 briefly offered with a Bolt On neck in 1999?. But apart from that, all Love Rocks definitely have a Set neck (inc. LS50) .
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lasher
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Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think by 81 some of the love rock had single ring kluson tuners. mine does, and has the same type serial number scheme. it's obviously an 81 ls-80.
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ian
Guitar God


Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 834
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Lasher,

Yep, quite right :-........those double ring Klusons are seen as original equip?t on almost all 1979 & 80 Les Paul?s. But by 1981 they are almost always single ring. At least, that?s true for all the Tokai LP?s I?ve ever see .

Ian.
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looknow
Plucker


Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Guys,help is much appreciated.No Ian I did not buy it off "guitargai" but I also saw that one and was tempted,it looked nice.I bought mine from a really helpful and knowledgable seller,you probably know,Hiro of "japanoldguitar".He has handled over 100 Tokai,s and is a reliable seller.He gave me this info concerning serial numbers;
1979 - 90*****
1980 - 00***** or 01*****
1990 - 90***** or 00*****
2000 - 00*****
2001 - 01*****

I am sure the guitar in question is an older 1980 model,I just need some confirmation regarding these numbers.Fender Straight forward,Gibson(early) ????? Tokai,getting there,Cheers Everyone.
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ian
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Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 834
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh.....Mr Hiro !... Yes, I totally agree, he's a really nice bloke, & a completely honest dealer (I bought an LS60 from him last year) - definitely one of my favourite eBay sellers (& probably the best from Japan) - if he says it's 1980, then I'm sure it is .

All the best,

Ian.
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Loudmouse
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It makes me wonder... I have a LS-50(?) 3 piece top, set neck with INK stamped serial #01*****, double ring tuners that say Tokai on them, PAF pickups with "GOTO" ink stamped on back and both coils have hex wrench adjustable pole pieces. No info in pickup cavities. Would this be a 2001 model?
Thanks for any information and I would like to say that this is my first post in a forum that I have enjoyed for a long time.
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ian
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Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 834
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Loudmouse,

Welcome to posting on the Forum ! Well, I?ve never seen those double ring tuners on any Tokai after 1980 (or 81 at the latest). I assume your guitar is a Love Rock (because a Reborn or Reborn Old would clearly be pre 81)? OK, well??.if the tuners are original then I think your guitar must be 1980-81 . Anyone else want to shoot that down ?

Ian.
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Loudmouse
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ian, and yes, it is a Love Rock model. The thing that had me second guessing the year was the black inked serial number. It doesn't look like the "regular" stamped numbers that I see on guitars on E-Bay.
Thanks again, and I'd like to say that this is indeed my second post in a forum that I have enjoyed for a long time.
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supernout
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Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everybody who ownes one of these "special" 80/81 tokai les pauls does know the truth about them.

The serial usually starts with an inked black digit of 010... for 1980 and 110... for 1981.

...so what would you do if you owned a factory without enough production capacity to satisfy the temporarily increasing orders of customers in time?
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If you can't solve a problem...you are the problem. (shadocs rule!)
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Loudmouse
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HHMMM, Guess I'm not one of the everybodies that knows all about the "special" 80/81 love rocks. I always assumed mine was a 2001 model. Supernout seems to vaguely say that they were made in a different factory? Where can I find more info on this specific model? Can we be a little less small and a little more precise?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, we can. But I want to sell mine before
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Loudmouse
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2004 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you sold yours yet?
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