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Tokai LS120 Reborn old 1980 Eu SOLD!!
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villager
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know what braz looks like i have enough guitars with braz boards.. and i agree i have yet to see it on an older tokai... but i find it interesting that the catalogue actually says its jacaranda...
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le juge
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

villager wrote:
i know what braz looks like i have enough guitars with braz boards.. and i agree i have yet to see it on an older tokai... but i find it interesting that the catalogue actually says its jacaranda...


I think they were confusing the species of rosewood and say "jaracanda" in the catalogue for the best quality of rosewood.
If you know a little bit the story of brazilian rosewood, you can easily understand why it's so rare after 1965 on guitars.
I don't know why some guys want to believe that the japanese manufacturers were able to have old stocks of braz because there was an export ban since 1968 from Brazil.

I don't know what guitars you are refering to, but I haven't seen a braz board guitar on your website. Maybe you have old US gems from the 50's/early 60's.
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villager
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe you need to look a bit harder... greco egf 1800s 1200s tokai ls 320 tokai hbz, mushroom, couple ofcustom ordered navigators, all small pored dark braz, and i dont think they were "confused" there are brand new guitars available now with braz as an option, navigator spec it as available on custom orders, tokai regularly use it on the top models and crews also have a line called 59FM which are specced as brazillian so it is still out there yes in limited quantities but still there... many replica builders also have it to use and theres a fair bit available on ebay, all with cities certificates..
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le juge
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

villager wrote:
maybe you need to look a bit harder... greco egf 1800s 1200s tokai ls 320 tokai hbz, mushroom, couple ofcustom ordered navigators, all small pored dark braz, and i dont think they were "confused" there are brand new guitars available now with braz as an option, navigator spec it as available on custom orders, tokai regularly use it on the top models and crews also have a line called 59FM which are specced as brazillian so it is still out there yes in limited quantities but still there... many replica builders also have it to use and theres a fair bit available on ebay, all with cities certificates..


Maybe today but not in the 70's/80's, they were confused, but it's very limited quantity and you'd have to get an CITES certificate to sell guitars with braz.
I know there are many manufacturers which are building Replicas with braz, but it's nowadays. I was talking about old mij from late 70's/early 80's.

No, EGF 1200's fretboards have to many pores to be braz, from what i've seen, sorry.
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le juge
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, I've nothing against you, you're a sympathic guy but from what I see on your website, this EGF 1800 has a indian rosewood fretboard not a braz.

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villager
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

from what you have seen ... and how many egf 1200s have you owned? or 1800s? i would guess a lot less than me.. all 1980 1200s are specced in the catalog as braz..
1981 not so sure, all 1800s are braz.. unless you own them and look at them in real life then you are not qualified to comment .. as far as i have seen no old tokais are braz but many new ones are ..

i dont think the guys who bought the wood and dealt with the wood suppliers in the 80s were confused.. they were running a business and to get things right was an essential part of the japanese psyche, so i respectfully disagree with you.. i think they had a lot more hands on experience of wood supply than you do...
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Last edited by villager on Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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villager
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry but i dont value your judgement against the guys who built the guitars....
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villager
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol thats what the internet is for to debate points... from my experience i believe i know what braz looks and smells like .. but of course i may be wrong... having said that is is totally irrelevant to the overall tone..

so what do you say about this?






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villager
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok so here is the tokai HLS-BZF here is the link to the specs...

http://www.musicland.co.jp/content/003/tokai-hls-bzf-std/

here is the board....



so is this braz? or are they just lying? 6 produced i think that says it all...

not all braz is visually stunning....
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villager
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres another ls-320 jacaranda board.. confused? dont think so.. this is 2002 when everyone knew exactly what the wood was..and for them to actually promote it as braz, then i think it actually will be!!




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le juge
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

villager wrote:
from what you have seen ... and how many egf 1200s have you owned? or 1800s? i would guess a lot less than me.. all 1980 1200s are specced in the catalog as braz..
1981 not so sure, all 1800s are braz.. unless you own them and look at them in real life then you are not qualified to comment .. as far as i have seen no old tokais are braz but many new ones are ..

i dont think the guys who bought the wood and dealt with the wood suppliers in the 80s were confused.. they were running a business and to get things right was an essential part of the japanese psyche, so i respectfully disagree with you.. i think they had a lot more hands on experience of wood supply than you do...


I don't know where they were able to find braz in 1978/1982 because there were no export since 1968. Old stocks weren't trackable and Gibson and Fender went to indian rosewood after 1965.

Mark, I'm always talking about the mij golden era, not the guitar of today or after 1992. I have seen recent guitars with real braz fretboard.

I have seen a bunch of 1200's and compare them with my older Gibson and Epiphone. Plus, I have seen and played many vintage guitars so I know what is a braz rosewood on a fretboard with grain and colours variations...

The picture of your 1980 EGF-1800 is detailed enought to see the pore structure is an indian rosewood.
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villager
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well the catalogue say jacaranda and thats good enough for me... all the japanese experts on greco agree that 1800s are braz.. you seem to be the only dissenting voice...but you are entitled to your opinion...
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Last edited by villager on Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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le juge
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

villager wrote:
ok so here is the tokai HLS-BZF here is the link to the specs...

http://www.musicland.co.jp/content/003/tokai-hls-bzf-std/

here is the board....



so is this braz? or are they just lying? 6 produced i think that says it all...

not all braz is visually stunning....

The structure of the pores looks like braz, I agree.

But the next guitar looks like the honduras I have on my 2007 N-TE.
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villager
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From http://ksa242.izhranma.org/jvguitars_greco_eg-series.ru.html and info at http://brochures.yokochou.com/guitar-and-amp/greco/1980-2/en_index.html and my Greco pickup post http://forum.japanaxe.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=768 I'm able to post the complete 1980 Greco Super Real catalogue English specs.

EGF1800: Mahogany one layer body, Flame Maple two piece top, Red Sunburst finish, Mahogany one piece neck, Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard, Dry Z pickups.

EGF1000: Mahogany one layer body, Flame Maple two piece top, Red Sunburst finish, Mahogany one piece neck, Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard, PAF DiMarzio pickups (DP103?).

EG1000CB, EG1000CBS, EG1000CR: Mahogany one layer body, Maple two piece top, Black, Black Sunburst, Red Sunburst finish, Mahogany one piece neck, Ebony Fingerboard, Dry Z pickups.

EG900B, EG900R, EG900S, EG900T: Mahogany one layer body, Maple two piece top, Black, Red Sunburst, Sunburst, Tobacco Sunburst finish, Mahogany one piece neck, Indian Rosewood Fingerboard, PAF DiMarzio pickups (DP103?).

EGF850: Mahogany one layer body, Maple two piece top, Red Sunburst finish, Mahogany one piece neck, Indian Rosewood Fingerboard, PU-2 pickups.

Nitro finish for the models above and poly finish for the models below but from new information and acetone tests, some EG500-EG800 (50,000-80,000 Yen) Super Real models have a Nitro finish. Also some early 1982-1985 lower model Mint Collection Grecos such as the EGC57-60 (60,000 Yen) model with Screamin pickups have been found to have a nitro finish.

EG800GS: Mahogany one layer body, Maple two piece top, Gold finish, Mahogany one piece neck, Ebony Fingerboard, Hot Lick P-90 type pickups.

EG800CB, EG800CBS, EG800CR: Mahogany one layer body, Maple two piece top, Black, Black Sunburst, Red Sunburst finish, Mahogany one piece neck, Ebony Fingerboard, PU-2 pickups.

EG800PB (Peter Frampton 3 pickups): Mahogany one layer body, Maple two piece top, Black finish, Mahogany one piece neck, Ebony Fingerboard, U-2000 pickups.

EG800PR (Ace Frehley 3 pickups): Mahogany one layer body, Maple two piece top, Red Sunburst finish, Mahogany one piece neck, Ebony Fingerboard, U-2000 pickups.

EG800B, EG800R, EG800S, EG800T: Mahogany one layer body, Maple two piece top, Black, Red Sunburst, Sunburst, Tobacco Sunburst finish, Mahogany one piece neck, Indian Rosewood Fingerboard, PU-2 pickups.

EG700B, EG700R, EG700S, EG700T, EG700G: Mahogany one layer body, Maple two piece top, Black, Red Sunburst, Sunburst, Tobacco Sunburst, Gold finish, Mahogany one piece neck, Rosewood Fingerboard, U-2000 pickups.

EG600PB (Peter Frampton 3 pickups): Mahogany one layer body, Maple two piece top, Black finish, Mahogany neck, Ebony Fingerboard, U-1000 pickups.

EG600PR (Ace Frehley 3 pickups): Mahogany one layer body, Maple two piece top, Red Sunburst finish, Mahogany neck, Ebony Fingerboard, U-1000 pickups.

EG500B, EG500R, EG500S, EG500T: Mahogany body, Maple three piece top, Black, Red Sunburst, Sunburst, Tobacco Sunburst finish, Mahogany neck, Rosewood Fingerboard, U-1000 pickups.

EG500CB, EG500CR: Mahogany body, Maple three piece top, Black, Red Sunburst finish, Mahogany neck, Rosewood Fingerboard, UD pickups.

EG500J (Jeff Beck): Mahogany body, Maple three piece top, Dark Green finish, Mahogany neck, Rosewood Fingerboard, U-1000 pickups.

EG500GS: Mahogany body, Maple three piece top, Gold finish, Mahogany neck, Rosewood Fingerboard, UD-DX pickups (mini humbuckers?).

Super Real logos for all of the above models and no logos for the models below.

Fret edge binding for all of the above models and no fret edge binding and sometimes chambered bodies for the models below.

EG480R, EG480S: Mahogany body, Flamed Sycamore top, Red Sunburst, Sunburst finish, Mahogany neck, Rosewood Fingerboard, UD pickups.

EG450B, EG450R, EG450S, EG450T: Mahogany body, Sycamore top, Black, Red Sunburst, Sunburst, Tobacco Sunburst finish, Mahogany neck, Rosewood Fingerboard, UD pickups.
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villager
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the next one is a 2002 ls-320 stated as braz board, highest model at the time.. as are the 540s now, it may not look to you like its braz, but if tokai say it is then ... sorry i believe them...
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