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Tokai Love Rock 1980 LS 60 or 2014 LS 160?
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boscobound
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Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:24 am    Post subject: Tokai Love Rock 1980 LS 60 or 2014 LS 160? Reply with quote

Hello all,

I'm trying to decide between one of two Tokai models to purchase.
They both cost about $1400.00

The first guitar I'm considering is a 1980 Love Rock LS 60 in great shape. I've been doing some research and this model has the medium length neck tenon and 14 degree headstock angle, and either a 2 or 3 piece mahogany back.

The second guitar I'm considering is a 2014 Love Rock LS 160.
It has the long neck tenon, 18 degree headstock angle, and 1 piece mahogany back.

I prefer the long tenon and 1 piece back on the LS 160 and not sure if the neck angle makes a difference, but on average did Tokai make better guitars back in 1980 compared to current production? I'm just wondering which guitar would be the better deal since they both cost about the same price.
Also, I can't seem to keep my guitars so I'm constantly buying and reselling so resale is a concern.

Which would you go for assuming aesthetics were not an issue? The vintage 1980 Love Rock LS 60 or current 2014 LS 160?

Thanks for your advice.


Last edited by boscobound on Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Paladin2019
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Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tokai are well known for having consistently good build quality throughout their entire history, and going by your post I'm assuming you're more interested in real specs and performance than intangible vintage 'mojo'.

My vote goes to the modern 160, unless resale value is an overwhelming concern (you'll probably be able to move the old one for the same price or better with time, the new one could take a depreciation hit).
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Barks67
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Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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Location: Leeds UK

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've a 1985 LS 60/80 (odd year, high end wood specs but no feb and poly) and it's an amazing guitar.
I however bought a LS160s GT a year ago and the older Tokai has stayed in it's case.
Tokai have nailed it with these modern premium models.
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cashcow
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Joined: 27 Jun 2008
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Location: Blue State

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are you concerned about the headstock angle?
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boscobound
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Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="cashcow"]Why are you concerned about the headstock angle?[/quote

I'm not really. I guess I was just trying to point out the differences between the two guitars.
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BrazenPicker
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Joined: 02 Oct 2010
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Location: Bangkok

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The old one any day for me. New guitars can be great too, but more often it's the old ones I keep going back to. I also like the sense of history of a 35-year old guitar. How old will you be when the new one is 35 years old? And resale value, while easy to frown on, is a reality. The market nowadays is absolutely flooded with good-quality guitars, but they can't make any more of those golden era MIJs.

Lastly, those poorly CNCd fretboards in the newer ones (circles in the corner of the inlays) make me cringe. If Gibson did that everybody would be jumping on them.

1,400 sounds a tad high though, although it depends where you are. For a bit more you could have an LS-80.
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Lucke Luke
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Joined: 23 Mar 2014
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Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BrazenPicker wrote:
Lastly, those poorly CNCd fretboards in the newer ones (circles in the corner of the inlays) make me cringe. If Gibson did that everybody would be jumping on them.


Now, I've noticed that myself and I couldn't figure out why the hell.

I always imagined that if the inlays were CNCd that they'd be 100% acurate and able to carry the craziest of patterns. However, I did notice on my own Les Paul those teeny 'circles' in the corners of the inlay. Which I personally thought (due to their innacuracy) could've been hand cut rather than CNCd...

Do you/others have any more info on it? How could CNC leave such corners?

took a few pics: Top one is LS200, bottom SG 61' Reissue


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jshort
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Joined: 04 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lucke Luke wrote:





Woah, is that really what a ls173 would look like? I've read that a 173, last years 160 are on build quality par with a Gibby LP standard. I guess this is not true? Thanks.
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JVsearch
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Joined: 01 Jan 2009
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jshort wrote:
Woah, is that really what a ls173 would look like? I've read that a 173, last years 160 are on build quality par with a Gibby LP standard. I guess this is not true? Thanks.


In all the vital areas such as good intonation, neck stability, fret work and sweet tuning the Tokai would probably surpass Gibson USA build quality overall.
But yeah, everybody hates this inlay business.

Gibson have cleverly avoided the problem by changing to rounded corners on their inlays. A vintage LP inlay has sharp points like the Tokai.

There are other factors as well, such as weight relieving in the bodies of Gibson USA models (not all of them) whereas the bottom rung on the Tokai Premium range (LS-173) is a proper solid one piece body LP.

It's a wonderful competitive life nowadays, and everybody must cut corners where they can to remain viable.
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wulfman
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Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this case they should be cutting the corners, and not drilling them!
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BrazenPicker
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Joined: 02 Oct 2010
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Location: Bangkok

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, how much time would it take for someone to hand-carve the corners with a chisel after CNCing most of the inlay area, 15 minutes per guitar? It lets down an otherwise well-made guitar. But my vote is still on the vintage one, especially with thelow Yen and the prices they're going for nowadays.
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boscobound
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Joined: 20 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Decided to purchase a 1980 Greco Super Real LP instead. What an awesome guitar!
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jshort
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Joined: 04 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses guys. So torn between a Bacchus and Tokai atm.
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Diamond
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Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 1655
Location: ZA

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="jshort"]
Lucke Luke wrote:



Woah, is that really what a ls173 would look like? I've read that a 173, last years 160 are on build quality par with a Gibby LP standard. I guess this is not true? Thanks.


Comparing the build quality of a made in Japan Tokai LS160/173 to a LP Standard is like comparing Mayweathers punching power to Mike Tyson.
Tyson is the Tokai.

And there's no comparison between a 1980 Greco Super Real and a Tokai LS173.

The internet sure has a way of COMPLETELY obscuring the truth and the facts.
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Reborn Old
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diamond wrote:


And there's no comparison between a 1980 Greco Super Real and a Tokai LS173.

The internet sure has a way of COMPLETELY obscuring the truth and the facts.


Fact is ... that everybody's perception varies and is biased towards preconceived values and past experiences, so fortunately everybody's "truth" is bound to vary at least a little.
My personal experience suggests that 1980's Greco Super Reals sound pretty amazing, despite many Super Real Grecos having veneer tops and multipiece backs.


Last edited by Reborn Old on Sat May 02, 2015 3:48 pm; edited 4 times in total
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