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Help identifying a Tokai - registry appears to be wrong :(

 
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imalrightjackj
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Joined: 12 Feb 2015
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Location: Cumbria, England

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:50 am    Post subject: Help identifying a Tokai - registry appears to be wrong :( Reply with quote

I'm toying with taking this as a trade - the serial number is 9061062 but the trader isn't the original owner and I'd like to know more to help assess value. I think from what I've read that it's made in China. I'd guess this is worth around ?200? The Registry suggests it's Japanese but it doesn't look it:

http://www.tokairegistry.com/tokai-registry/view_search_guitars.php?setting=11042

Any thoughts? Thanks!




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marcusnieman
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Joined: 22 May 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Registry isn't wrong - that's MIC and the serial number they came up with falls within a MIJ sequence.

FYI, you cannot simply date a Tokai by serial numbers because there are some anomalies. Secondly, certain things (three screw truss rod cover) point out a non MIJ guitar
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imalrightjackj
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I don't understand. The Registry says it's Japanese so how is it right? I'm just confused

What kind of price would you suggest for this and are they considered decent guitars?
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Reborn Old
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Joined: 11 May 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes the registry has entry errors in places.
Entries aren't verified, and many, if not most entries,
are from new users who are somewhat unfamiliar with Tokai models.

906 prefixes were for 2009 made in China models only.
This fact stumped me for months, because that year China followed
Japan's 7 digit format as Marcus said, while other years didn't.

I suspect most are reasonably well built.
You just need to check 2005+ catalogs for wood species used for your specific model and decide if that's what you want.
(google "Tokai vol 26 catalog")

Most flame top China models were ALS-48's unless they had bolt on necks,
in which case they would have been lower models.
You definitely need to see a pic of the neck join from the back before deciding on value.

Sorry, I won't comment on guitar values.

Happy hunting !
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imalrightjackj
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Joined: 12 Feb 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has a through neck. From looking at catalog 26, this seems to match (third from the left), although the dimple in the headstock is different:

http://www.theguitarshop.jp/catalogue/vintage2.html

Will the spec be the same, wherever it was made or are Chinese ones cheaper materials? How do I know which in the catalog are made in China? Forgive my ignorance

The neck join from the back:



And a couple more, out of interest:

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Reborn Old
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A set neck made in China LS would be an ALS-48 model.

It changes a little from catalog to catalog, but as a general rule Traditional Series (export models) will have a three letter prefix
(instead of a two letter prefix which Vintage and Premium series models have) and originate from China insead of Japan
Most of these MIC Traditional series export models will also have a model # lower than 61.

The center dimple headstock was an export requirement for some destination countries, but not others. All other specs would remain the same.
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imalrightjackj
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Joined: 12 Feb 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. A few more questions, I'm afraid!

What does LS actually stand for?

And do you know what colour this one is? I can match it up with the catalogue
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marcusnieman
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The neck also has a scarf join seam at the curve before the heel
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imalrightjackj
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marcusnieman wrote:
The neck also has a scarf join seam at the curve before the heel


Sorry, this one specifically or generally? And what does that mean?
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marcusnieman
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See the faint downward half moon seam at the base of the neck in the curve? It's a two piece neck joined with what's known as a scarf joint.

Generally used on lower end guitars but not always. You can google the term to read a little more about them.
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imalrightjackj
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish I could pin down for sure this model. I'm assuming it's an ALS-48 but the catalogues I've looked at don't have a SDR (see-through dark red) option...I've spent hours searching
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stratlt
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Joined: 03 May 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imalrightjackj wrote:
I wish I could pin down for sure this model. I'm assuming it's an ALS-48 but the catalogues I've looked at don't have a SDR (see-through dark red) option...I've spent hours searching


First of all I suspect that it's UALS series guitar, not ALS. UALS series guitars are manufactured for the UK market and has modified headstock design.
Second - Tokai very flexible company and every major distributor or dealer can order guitars with their specifications, including colors.
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imalrightjackj
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, thanks for the info. Could anybody say 99% that it's an UALS-48 then?
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carl300367
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

can be bought for well under ?300
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Peter Mac
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys,

to answer a few questions too. .. .

LS stands for Les Paul Standard (1957 - 1960)

Whilst all the range seem similar, Japanes models ONLY have a 2-screw truss rod cover. Yours has a 3 screw. (Korea or China)

Serial Numbers: 1979 has a 3rd digit of O (900xxxx) and 1990 models have a 3rd digit of 4 ( 904xxxx) however the features on these earlier headstocks are quite different from each other- as is yours compared to the other 2 years that share the same first digits. Yours has a 3rd digit of 6.

In Australia, an ALS-48 sells for around $480.00

Peter
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