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Matching body/neck codes misinformation?
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Do body/neck codes have to match?
Yep, to be all original
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
By no means
55%
 55%  [ 11 ]
Don?t know
25%
 25%  [ 5 ]
Don't care
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 20

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felixcatus
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Location: Antwerp, Belgium

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Matching body/neck codes misinformation? Reply with quote

I did a search about the Fender models neck/body codes and I found a lot of posts on the forum
There seem to be two opposite sides of opinions . One side says the codes have to match for the guitar to be all original, the others say it doesn?t matter whether the codes match or not.

I?m not trying to find the answer to what the codes exactly mean. There?s been debated plenty over this, and I?m not sure we?ll ever find an answer to that question.
Although some have claimed to know or promised to post the definitive answer, but never posted a follow up.

I also would like to know from both sides what your arguments, opinions or facts are, for stating the one or the other.
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Reborn Old
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The temptation in Japan, where Tokai spare necks and parts are common,
is for owners to swap parts to make their Teles + Strats more period correct or comfortable to play.
Very few are concerned with returning the guitar to original spec again prior to resale.

Members who don't know their guitar's entire history,
and have guitars with mismatched neck + pickup/neck pocket stampings,
shouldn't participate in the poll, if you're hoping for meaningful poll results.

I would love to hear someone say "yeah I bought it new and neck/body numbers are different,
but the reality is: necks get changed for a lot of reasons and very few of us know their guitar's entire histories.

The same holds true to a lesser extent for neck plates without supporting warranty cards,
unless you have found an identical example with the same serial number format.


Last edited by Reborn Old on Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Peter Mac
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting thread, Felix,
most of you guys know my stand about the codes. 1st number is month as I haven't come across one higher than 12 and 2nd number is most likely day but the production run argument does hold merit.
I have seen a double second number [ 8=3&4] with a body [8=3] indicating the neck had to be applied on the following day...maybe. I would still consider this a matched set.
Fender history is a little different as the numbers were written in pencil at various locations on the body. All the bodies are the same as are the necks so composite strats aren't really a step away. Eric Claptons "Blackie" was in fact a composite of 3 or 4 different '57 Strats - and still sold for over $1,000,000.
With Tokai though, taking an ST-80 neck and putting it on an ST45 body and selling it as an ST-80 to me is fraud. Tell the buyer and if they are still interested, then sell it.

Peter Mac
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Reborn Old
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first number could very well indicate a production month,
but I don't recall seeing a number on the right side higher than 15 ?
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felixcatus
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reborn Old wrote:
The first number could very well indicate a production month,
but I don't recall seeing a number on the right side higher than 15 ?


My Breezy neck code: 5=16 A
body code: 6=14J BL. A
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Reborn Old
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a 6=14 or 5=16 stamped in the neck pickup route or neck pocket by any chance ? What year is it ?

Here is a random sampling of 24 numbers used on the right of the equal sign:
2,3,6,6,6,6,6,7,7,7,9,10,11,11,12,12,12,12,13,13,13,15,15,15
10 numbers were used in this sampling.
Run or employee numbers might have been more useful but would be harder to prove.

I just found a 4=25 Breezy, but so few examples appear on the high side of 16.
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felixcatus
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reborn Old wrote:
Is there a 6=14 or 5=16 stamped in the neck pickup route or neck pocket by any chance ? What year is it ?



1980.
Body code (6=14J BL. A) is in the neck pickup cavity, no codes in the neck pocket or control cavity.
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Barks67
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll dismantle my 1987 Goldie later today and feed back.

I'm a worker/player and view these as tools so replacing parts would not bother me. If it is a good instrument with good parts its always going to have a value in the player market.

Oh and I bought it new in 1987. It has a 6 figure serial number, that I also wrote into the tremolo cavity in 1987 as I was travelling with it a lot through Europe then.
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ampmaker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reborn Old wrote:

Members who don't know their guitar's entire history,
...
shouldn't participate in the poll, if you're hoping for meaningful poll results.


This. If and only if someone has owned a guitar from brand new should you take their input as truth. Everything else is wishful thinking, noise not signal.

We all like to think that our bought-used Tokais are original, but we just can't say for sure. Back when Tokais were just good and affordable St/Te copies, no-one thought twice about swapping things around.

And for the last 10+ years people have been swapping Tokai bits around to recreate a convincing guitar (often to sell). And they pick and choose bits to meet the specs shown in the original catalogues. So the codes on these 'bitsacasters' will be all over the place (assuming the codes of the originals did have some systematic numbering system).
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Barks67
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1

Mine is now officially a bitsocaster though I have owned it since new. Parts were replaced when they wore out. Only the pups were changed as I felt they were lacking for me and the style I played in. I've always had interest from other players wanting to buy it should I ever want to sell and usually for a lot more than I paid for it.
The neck, body, scratchplate( knobs + covers) and selector switch are original - the rest -whatever I could get to keep it functioning
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Barks67
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote





Thought this interesting as it shows the fading on the neck of a well used 26 year old guitar.




apologies for size.
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Suki
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 1978 ST-85 has codes that are 1 day out - I consider this original because the body and neck both appear to be nitro, and if they were swapped, it would be almost inconceivable to swap it for a neck which is a day out.

Logically to me, this guitar is original.

Furthermore, I have discovered that:

1. The very early ST's (1977 and early 1978) have a narrow neck plate and the screw holes are therefore positioned differently (we all already know this). Therefore the necks would not be (without evidence of re-drilling/plugging) interchangeable.

2. The later 1978 and pre 1982 models have the standard size larger neck plate, BUT (and this I didn't know before) the hole positions are closer to the centre of the plate and are not (without evidence of re-drilling/plugging) interchangeable with earlier/later models.

This narrows down the criteria of potential neck interchangeability.
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Sigmania
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have seen a double second number [ 8=3&4] with a body [8=3] indicating the neck had to be applied on the following day...maybe. I would still consider this a matched set.


Peter, is this my ST100?

Quote:
My 1978 ST-85 has codes that are 1 day out - I consider this original because the body and neck both appear to be nitro, and if they were swapped, it would be almost inconceivable to swap it for a neck which is a day out.


Good point Suki.



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jonah65
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i would say the codes should match, within a couple of days, to be the genuine article. say for instance the body was finished on a friday afternoon,
but the neck was
not fitted till the monday, the numbers could be up to 3 days out, (do the japanese take weekends off?).
the numbers must surely relate to days and months, production lines?-no,
employee number?-no.
how long does it take to produce a neck compared to a body.
were a large amount of necks and bodies produced at the beginning of the month, then assembled towards the end of the month, hence not too many codes above 15?
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felixcatus
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably a dumb question, but at what point in the assembly or production process are the codes added?
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