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1979 Breezysound authentication
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felixcatus
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Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 1199
Location: Antwerp, Belgium

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Len wrote:
Please let the buyer take pictures of the body and neck codes and post them here. They should be matching or very close. This should bring further clarification about neck & body belonging together.


Not necessarily so, there?s at least one example (with strong indications of an original body and neck ) with a difference of 23, on the digits behind the?=?.
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adjieformaggi
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 05 Jan 2010
Posts: 16
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone! I can reveal myself as the purchaser of Oshbosh's TE. Thank you all so much for you contributions to this thread. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to come down to this...a defining characteristic of the TE-80 is the single piece body, but the guitar I purchased from Oshbosh has a two piece body with a clear centre seam. Unless some TE-80s were produced with two piece bodies (my understanding is that none were), the only conclusion to be drawn from this is that the guitar is not an original TE-80.

To be clear, I have no doubts that Oshbosh sold the guitar to me in good faith and he is an excellent eBayer, but I have been the victim of "Tokai fraud" on more than one occasion now and I am feeling raw from the experience.
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Len
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Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 227
Location: Hamburg / Germany

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there!

Could you please post some pics of the body and neck codes ?
What are the pickups stamped ? Soldering / electronics look original or not ?

The more pictures and information we have from your guitar the more likely we can get to a definite conclusion.
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Peter Mac
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Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 1060
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

I now accept that there were Breezys made with earlier numbers.
Thanks guys for sharing that.
As I stated, my log is not complete and I had not previously had Breezy numbers earlier, Now I can add these to the collective and see the shape take better clarity.
We can also add that the first few runs ('79/E80) had these brass bridges with 6 saddles whereas later models were chrome or nickel plate and 3 or 6 saddle bridges.
I would view these initial runs as 'prototype runs' in as much as they were almost 8 months prior to the initial release. As they would have no official specs - and from the other 'PR' Breezy specs available - it is quite plausable that a 2 piece body was used on these originals.
The body and neck stamps would certainly dispell any doubts as to the originality of the body.
Don't write it off as a fraud yet, we are trying to help.


Peter Mac
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JVsearch
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Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 2017
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are there any alder bodied Breezys?

If so, it would be highly unlikely they would be one piece. Fender in the 60s made lots of 3 piece Jags and Jazzers for example, along with the 2 piece ones, but one piece bodies were rare because the alder trees generally weren't big enough.
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Reborn Old
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Joined: 11 May 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it was most commonly used on lower models and more commonplace after 1982, IIRC, possibly for reasons you suggested.

Alders rarely grow more than 2ft in diameter where I live, which might only yield several 2" x 15"wide boards per tree
and only if the trunk is very straight.
Alder wood grain has very little contrast compared to ash, so it's probably best suited to solid color finishes.
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Oshbosh
Plucker


Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Everyone,

thanks so much for getting involved. It seems that the issue of the serial number has been resolved and so just wanted to summarise the findings so far on the 2 piece body.

- The body might be Alder, not ash, if so 2 piece bodies would be normal for Alder, however Alder is also used on less expensive models.

- This Breezy seems to be one of the earliest seen on this forum and could even be some kind of pre production model according to Len which may explain the non standard 2 piece body.

If anyone has any other comments please let us know but it seems at this stage the only way to resolve this mystery is as Len says to take some internal photos.

I do apologise to adjieformaggi as i realise now i should have done this myself and put them in the listing, i just had no reason to suspect it wasn't totally original and as this is only my second guitar sold using ebay i didn't forsee the pitfalls, should have just listed it here in the first place, thanks guys!

Len wrote:
Hi there!

Could you please post some pics of the body and neck codes ?
What are the pickups stamped ? Soldering / electronics look original or not ?

The more pictures and information we have from your guitar the more likely we can get to a definite conclusion.
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adjieformaggi
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 05 Jan 2010
Posts: 16
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, I think the case may be closed! I took the neck off her and can summarise the markings / codes as follows:

Neck pocket: appears to be "TE-80" written very faintly in red ink (conclusive?).

Neck pickup cavity: "12=7GS A" written clearly in black ink (note: absence of markings on baseplate of neck pick up).

Bridge pickup: "TEA" written clearly in white ink on baseplate.

Neck heel: "12=7 A" written clearly in black ink (as confirmed by Oshbosh's listing photos the neck has the determinative "80" stamped after the last fret).

CONCLUSION: THIS IS A GENUINE AND 100% ORIGINAL TE-80 AND SOME VERY EARLY TE-80s HAD TWO-PIECE BODIES. ANY THOUGHTS???

Pictures to follow once I work out how.
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jacco
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Joined: 25 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thoughts?

A december stamped neck & body with 9005420 serial.

Fun fun fun!
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Len
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Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 227
Location: Hamburg / Germany

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adjieformaggi wrote:

Neck pickup cavity: "12=7GS A" written clearly in black ink (note: absence of markings on baseplate of neck pick up).

Bridge pickup: "TEA" written clearly in white ink on baseplate.


the one I posted before (9005178) has the same body and neck codes 12=7GS A and 12=7 A
Not a total surprise as their serial numbers are just ~200numbers apart.
Same thing with the unstamped neck pickup and white ink TEA stamped bridge pickup.
The "A" in the body and neck codes usually denotes a model of TE- or ST-80 and higher. I haven?t seen it on a poly finished/lower model neck or body yet.

Your tele really puts our theories to the test.

It might be serials in the 9005xxx range don?t necessarily mean the guitar was produced in early 1979 (?)
Or it might be that a guitar stamped 12=7 is not necessarily a december production guitar (?)

I?m curious for the pictures. Please upload a picture of the body seam as well.
All TE-80s from 1979/1980 I?ve seen before had 1-piece bodies.
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bluejeannot
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Joined: 20 Feb 2007
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Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"He who dares wins" Adjie :
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felixcatus
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Joined: 03 Nov 2010
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Location: Antwerp, Belgium

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adjieformaggi wrote:


Pictures to follow once I work out how.


http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=20359
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jacco
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Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 2871
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a few 2P back Tokai LS from 1979 in the same serial
range. These also should have a 1P back.
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felixcatus
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Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 1199
Location: Antwerp, Belgium

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jacco wrote:
There are a few 2P back Tokai LS from 1979 in the same serial
range. These also should have a 1P back.


On the same note.
At the moment I'm considering buying a 1980 ST100, according to the seller, a 2 piece.
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Reborn Old
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Joined: 11 May 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Len wrote:

It might be serials in the 9005xxx range don?t necessarily mean the guitar was produced in early 1979 (?)
Or it might be that a guitar stamped 12=7 is not necessarily a December production guitar (?)

Just to complicate matters a little more ...
1979 LS-80 #90005792 has a pickup cavity code of 8=2 which is more in line calender wise, with the 1979 serial # range overall.

I suspect neck plates were manufactured and engraved by outside sources on an as needed basis, and so Fender serial #'s aren't necessarily always accurate indicators of time of year a Fender model was produced within a given serial range, unlike stamped Gibson model serial numbers and to a lesser degree, 1st 2 digits of Fender body stamps (if these do in fact represent months of the year) which are both stamped onsite.
I show mostly LS models being built from 9006140 ~ 9006440, and then just SS + ST model #'s assigned until about #9009300 and a mix of Fender models after that to the end of 1979.

Unfortunately I don't have body stamp pics for sporadic TE examples in the 9009500 - 9010130 range, but my point is that body stamps might suggest all 79 TE's were in fact completed closer to year end as Peter suggested, with the first bunch possibly getting left over earlier neck plates and the rest getting a new order of later # neck plates.
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