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Goldstar identification please
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scotsrock
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:46 am    Post subject: Goldstar identification please Reply with quote

Could someone tell me about my Goldstar?

I think it was built in 83 and I think it is an ST50

It has a 2 piece body, one piece maple neck with the three part decal SCRIPT LOGO with "made in japan by rock and roll fantastics"

THE SERIAL NUMBER IS 15109

http://tinypic.com/m/icqs1t/1
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I own a Goldstar strat, Squier Strats SQ, series A and E, Hank Marvin & Symon Neal, Fender CS 56 NOS Strat, Gretsch DC5122G, Ibanez AS80, MC200DC, ST300, & 2351BS, Aria PE1000 & PE Anniversary, Baldwin706, Yamaha MSG & SG2000
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Suki
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Joined: 22 Feb 2013
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Location: London, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's most likely to be an 84 or 85. Most 83's were block logo variants.
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scotsrock
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Suki, I am no expert on Tokai guitars, I have attached a photo of the headboard for your information and viewing. I thought from the dating section of the Registry it was an 83 and someone in another post said that the "made in japan by rock and roll fantastics" was the transition model from the Springy.

http://tinypic.com/m/icrakw/1

Perhaps you could also confirm that the two piece body would indicate it is an ST60?
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I own a Goldstar strat, Squier Strats SQ, series A and E, Hank Marvin & Symon Neal, Fender CS 56 NOS Strat, Gretsch DC5122G, Ibanez AS80, MC200DC, ST300, & 2351BS, Aria PE1000 & PE Anniversary, Baldwin706, Yamaha MSG & SG2000
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Suki
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Joined: 22 Feb 2013
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Location: London, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ST-60's will have a 4 digit serial number. I would also expect to see a round string tree. They came with E or U pickups.

Yours is probably an ST-50 and it's likely to be 3 + Piece body - you might not be able to see the joins or they might be close to the edges where the paint is more opaque.
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scotsrock
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suki

The guitar has a center joint and it is 2 pieces it looks like ash. When I say center it runs through the center of the neck joint and pickup cavities!

I have a number of strat type guitars of various makes with various number of body pieces. Very few have a centre joint, the only other one I own is my Fender CS Nos 56 which has the joint in the identical place.

You can see the joint in this shot of the tremolo, dead center!

http://tinypic.com/m/icrb42/1
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I own a Goldstar strat, Squier Strats SQ, series A and E, Hank Marvin & Symon Neal, Fender CS 56 NOS Strat, Gretsch DC5122G, Ibanez AS80, MC200DC, ST300, & 2351BS, Aria PE1000 & PE Anniversary, Baldwin706, Yamaha MSG & SG2000
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scotsrock
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
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Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suki

The Dating & ID section, "Tokai Fender Replica Time Line" says

1956~1960 Model 5 digits on neck plates ST50, 60 TE50, 70 PB80.
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I own a Goldstar strat, Squier Strats SQ, series A and E, Hank Marvin & Symon Neal, Fender CS 56 NOS Strat, Gretsch DC5122G, Ibanez AS80, MC200DC, ST300, & 2351BS, Aria PE1000 & PE Anniversary, Baldwin706, Yamaha MSG & SG2000
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Suki
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Joined: 22 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gabe will be able to confirm, but afaik, st-60's were 4 digit.
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Peter Mac
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Joined: 16 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi scots rock,

I would date this as a 1983 ST-50 .
ST-60 have 'V' necks and round string tree.
Suki is correct in what he says about the pickups, but with the changover of logo, the body specs did change slightly. 3 piece bodys were used mainly for solid colours and 2 piece for see-through finish. Body is Alder, not Ash.

Suki, only Europe got the Block logo in 1983, whereas Australia and Japan had the script logo. It's the 'rock n roll fanatics' line that was only used in '83 and changed again in '84 to 'quality musical instruments.'

regards
PM
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scotsrock
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:45 am    Post subject: Very confused Reply with quote

As I have posted before in a previous comment the Dating & ID section, "Tokai Fender Replica Time Line" says

1956~1960 Model 5 digits on neck plates ST50, 60 TE50, 70 PB80. I have a Fender Custom shop NOS 56 and it has the same string tree as my Goldstar, not only does a 56 not have a round string tree it has a two part body and it is coloured red!

I have a 56 Fender Custom Shop Nos in red, it has the same string tree as my Goldstar with a two part body.

If you look at the this recent post you will see from the photos that this ST50 guitar is a two tone sunburst with a three piece body
muccax wrote:
hi
here is a foto of a 1981 st 50

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/7RjHWLlmITtc907tBRo5whH3ZhZ6_juaJaej2zRT5nQ-xIJZlzkmbb-txDqw0bZdU6Z0cQ=w1325-h523

must have been monday morning

link to photo

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4A2gt4c6rAxbHhnLVFYbDhrYnM&usp=sharing

all the best
otto


My guitar resembles more of the characteristic of an ST60 or there is something substantially wrong with the base information in this forum!
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I own a Goldstar strat, Squier Strats SQ, series A and E, Hank Marvin & Symon Neal, Fender CS 56 NOS Strat, Gretsch DC5122G, Ibanez AS80, MC200DC, ST300, & 2351BS, Aria PE1000 & PE Anniversary, Baldwin706, Yamaha MSG & SG2000
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Peter Mac
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys,

All I can take from that is your '56 Custom is inaccurate. You seem to be of the belief that just because it's made by Fender, it must be accurate. Not so, my man, not so.
Whilst you have a nice collection of guitars, I have owned or worked on 1,000's of vintage Fenders and Gibsons and will tell you that Tokai are far more accurate in their renditions than many of the various re-issues done by the "Big 2".
Having briefly owned an original '56, I can tell you the string tree is round. It was not til '57 that Fender went to a square style. The round tree was originally used on the 1949 Fender Broadcaster.
regards
Peter Mac
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scotsrock
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:04 am    Post subject: Necognised authory on Fender Strats Reply with quote

Hi Peter

Sorry to appear to be argumentative and to call into question your expertise but there is a necognised authority on vintage Fender Strats that I have continually referred to over the years, you can read it here, the people who put this together did a power of work detailing Fender Stratocasters through the years from 1954:

http://home.provide.net/~cfh/56strat.html

As you will see when you read it 1956 was a watershed for Strats, the bodies changed from Ash to Alder and the string trees changed from round to Butterfly and the body of a sunburst change to two piece.

The article does imply that there was initial old stock that was sold in early 56 but the 56 model exhibits the characteristic I have highlighted and as you said Tokai slavishly mimicked the current Fender model, so a 56 Tokai should have a two piece alder body which mine has and butterfly sting tree which mine has and my Custom Shop is an "exact" copy of a 56 Strat.

All those owner who have a five number neck plate should have a 56~60 Tokai replica of a 56 Fender with buterfly string tree and they should look again at there guitars, there is no such thing as a 56 Strat with round string tree.

This also puts the Dating section of the Tokai Registry into context!
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I own a Goldstar strat, Squier Strats SQ, series A and E, Hank Marvin & Symon Neal, Fender CS 56 NOS Strat, Gretsch DC5122G, Ibanez AS80, MC200DC, ST300, & 2351BS, Aria PE1000 & PE Anniversary, Baldwin706, Yamaha MSG & SG2000
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scotsrock
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:04 am    Post subject: Further doubts on your opinion Reply with quote

Hi Peter

One worry further observation on the

http://home.provide.net/~cfh/56strat.html

web site is that the numbering for a 56 strat runs from 9000 to 16000, assuming Tokai mimicked this like every other feature then there could be four digit numbered neck plate on Goldstars with a butterfly string tree out there that people like yourself are condemning as not authentic.

I need to do some detailed investigation into the above web site to see if the numbers throughout the years collate to the Tokai serial numbers but it cannot be a coincident that my Goldstar has a number of 15109 which is within the range of an original 56 Fender Strat.
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I own a Goldstar strat, Squier Strats SQ, series A and E, Hank Marvin & Symon Neal, Fender CS 56 NOS Strat, Gretsch DC5122G, Ibanez AS80, MC200DC, ST300, & 2351BS, Aria PE1000 & PE Anniversary, Baldwin706, Yamaha MSG & SG2000
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bluejeannot
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Joined: 20 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suki is right,Peter is right,I` m right. Your guitar is an 1983/84 st 50 Goldstar.END OF STORY.
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Last edited by bluejeannot on Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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scotsrock
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bluejeannot

Thank you for your constructive comment, but I prefer to use reasoned arguments rather than dogmatic statements.

My guitar may or may not be an ST50 but it is not for the statement that either Peter Mac or Suki have put forward, they are plain wrong a 56 Strat does not have a round string tree nor as I have exampled does an ST50 have a two part body because it is Sunburst. They may have a point about the neck but if you care to check I have made no mention of the shape of my neck.

http://home.provide.net/~cfh/fender.html#serial is a World regonised web site for Fender references I would prefer to believe them rather than that put forward by your two friend. I should add that Peter Mac also got my Custom Shop wrong, so how do you work out that they and you are right?

I already have pointed out that they are arguing against your own Dating Section which clearly says 56~60 fender strat models, a 56 does not have a round string tree therefore it cannot be used to determine what model my Goldie is!

Please give me a reasoned argument, could God's be wrong?
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I own a Goldstar strat, Squier Strats SQ, series A and E, Hank Marvin & Symon Neal, Fender CS 56 NOS Strat, Gretsch DC5122G, Ibanez AS80, MC200DC, ST300, & 2351BS, Aria PE1000 & PE Anniversary, Baldwin706, Yamaha MSG & SG2000
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scotsrock
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:36 am    Post subject: V shaped neck Reply with quote

Hi Peter Mac, Suki and Bluejeannot

To add further to my doubts about you ability to ascertain the model of my Goldie I would point you towards one of the Tokai catalogues

http://www.tokairegistry.com/images/catalogs/oldies_p2.jpg

I cannot read Japanese therefore most of the ones on the Registry are beyond me, but I can translate Swedish into English, Hals means Neck!

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=translate%20neck%20into%20swedish

If you look at the above catalogue and go to the column title Hals you will see quite clearly that ST80's and above have V necks, (brace yourselves, I think you know whats coming next!!!!!!) ST70's and below have U shaped necks I presume they mean "C"

Gods can be wrong, often!!!!
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I own a Goldstar strat, Squier Strats SQ, series A and E, Hank Marvin & Symon Neal, Fender CS 56 NOS Strat, Gretsch DC5122G, Ibanez AS80, MC200DC, ST300, & 2351BS, Aria PE1000 & PE Anniversary, Baldwin706, Yamaha MSG & SG2000
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