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Tokai Jag !!!! ????

 
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bluejeannot
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Joined: 20 Feb 2007
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Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:48 am    Post subject: Tokai Jag !!!! ???? Reply with quote

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-60s-Tokai-Jaguar-Electric-Guitar-Made-in-Japan-MIJ-Free-Fender-Picks-/110919740546?pt=Guit
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bluejeannot


Last edited by bluejeannot on Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
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JVsearch
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Joined: 01 Jan 2009
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Run, don't walk.

http://www.jimshine.com/phillipino/vietnam_serviceman_copies.htm

Unless, this sort of thing is what you were looking for. Just have a look at the string alignments along the neck, tuners, bridge etc.
Cheapo I'm afraid, but of historical interest for some. I don't know where the seller got the idea that Tokai made it.
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fuzztone
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Joined: 15 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVsearch wrote:
I don't know where the seller got the idea that Tokai made it.



George Gruhn told him


"I took this guitar to Nashville last week and had the gurus at Gruhn's Music tell me what it is. They were genuinely excited to see this. although I was told that it was not a factory Fender from the 60s, they informed me that this was made in the 60s by Tokai. This was done before all the lawsuits from Fender and Gibson occured. Apparently back in the 60s, Tokai would just put Fender on the guitars, and in Japan that was cool. Gruhns said that they had purchased a couple of these and used them in their classes about vintage Japanese guitars. They said they had never seen this blue/green finish. They have a white and red one. They said the value of these guitars are several hundred but it comes down to how much people desire these. When it comes to rarity, these are just as rare if not more than Fender made Jags."
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JVsearch
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Joined: 01 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuzztone wrote:
JVsearch wrote:
I don't know where the seller got the idea that Tokai made it.



George Gruhn told him


Well the listing has been "updated" with the new info from Jim Shine. Whether the seller was contacted by Jim Shine or has seen this thread I don't know.

I seriously can't believe Gruhns would have said it was a Tokai, although they are USA guitar snobs and probably don't care about MIJ at all.
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fuzztone
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVsearch wrote:
fuzztone wrote:
JVsearch wrote:
I don't know where the seller got the idea that Tokai made it.



George Gruhn told him


Well the listing has been "updated" with the new info from Jim Shine. Whether the seller was contacted by Jim Shine or has seen this thread I don't know.

I seriously can't believe Gruhns would have said it was a Tokai, although they are USA guitar snobs and probably don't care about MIJ at all.


I sent him a message and directed him to Jim Shine's webpage. He seems like an honest guy who got some bad info from someone at Gruhns(not George).

http://www.jimshine.com/phillipino/vietnam_serviceman_copies.htm
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bluejeannot
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

" He seems like an honest guy. "Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.Gabe
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bluejeannot
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fuzztone
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Joined: 15 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluejeannot wrote:
" He seems like an honest guy. "Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.Gabe


Yes,I think so.I sent him this email:

"Do you have an appraisal signed by George Gruhn? That guitar was definitely NOT made by Tokai. It is a serviceman special made in the Philippines in the 1960 0r 70s.

http://www.jimshine.com/phillipino/vietnam_serviceman_copies.htm"

He wrote back:

"Wow, thanks for the info! No, I don't have a signed appraisal, but two different employees at Gruhns both said that it was made by Tokai, one even said he was certain of it, "although Tokai would never admit it today".
If you don't mind my asking, how do you know that it was made in the Phillipeans? You seem to be very knowledgeable about this particular model. Id like to revise my listing"

and he added this to his listing:

"PLEASE NOTE: Here is a big exciting new twist, based on new info from a seemingly knowledgable Ebayer!

I have stated above, the info I was given at Gruhn's, but here's another exciting possible history for this guitar:

According to vintage dealer Jim Shine, this rare piece might have actually been manufactured in the Philippines in the 1960s, and then marketed and sold to US Servicemen durring the Vietnam war! Jim refers to it as "The Vietnam Serviceman Jaguar". He said that they were made by a company called Teo Dor, which also made various other Fender and Gibson guitar replicas, as well as.............get this.........Gretsch Drums! Also, Jimmy Page is pictured on a Led Zeppelin Collection album cover playing one of these Serviceman Jaguars, from what I am told by yet another source!

Wow, as much as I love and respect Gruhns for their vast knowledge of guitar history, I sure hope that Jim Shine is correct on this one! What a piece of American history! I can just imagine a lonesome US soldier, back in the Woodstock hippie era, purchasing this axe overseas with almost every penny he could scrape from his modest salary. Then, bringing it home on a ship, or plane, anticipating the sheer joy of plugging it in to a large "piggyback" amp, and playing Hendrix and Ventures tunes at top volume! I'm getting goose bumps just thinking about it!

I've reported everything I have learned so far. I'll post any new info as I receive it. Thanks to all the kind Ebayers out there for your valuable info!"
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