CODES AGAIN -Fender Replicas

Area for Tokai's older than 1985

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lifeline
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CODES AGAIN -Fender Replicas

Post by lifeline » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:22 am

As there has been much talk on neck/body codes again in recent threads, I thought it may be better to debate again /update our findings in a fresh post.

For me Peter Mac's dating theory is the most logical:

" My number theory is based on MM = DD (month = day) due to the fact that i have never seen the 1st number higher than 12 and the 2nd number I have seen up to 28" http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php ... ight=codes " The important thing is not just the serial# but also the stamps to determine when the guitar was made. I have catalogued over 1200 Tokai codes and in all these the first number has never exceeded 12 - so i would say it is a Month.The second number has never exceeded 27 so this could be Day" http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php ... s&start=15

Since Peter's post, I purchased a Goldstar which has the second number as 30 Cavity code 6.30 OR Z picture shown page 2 of http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=19526 from this thread Iain Black and Tom (Mirrorboy) posted today:

My guess on the X and Z markings would be the 'production line' number. Surely one of the guys who used to stamp them can tell us why? anyone got access to ex employees?
The only reference to the X and Z markings was a post some years ago by Peter Mac. He wrote to say that the Z simply described an export model

Peter Mac
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Post by Peter Mac » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:45 pm

Hi lifeline,

I will add to that in saying - NOT AS A HARD AND FAST RULE - that "A" is for ST-80 and ST-85 and ST100.
I have also noticed that ST 60's seem to be stamped with the "X" more often than other models.
Lastly, the dash seems to have changed from 6=17 to 6-17 sometime after 1983. This may be an indicatore as to early Goldstars.
regards
Peter Mac
The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.

lifeline
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Post by lifeline » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:59 am

Many thanks for this Peter, I will follow up tomorrow with a couple of questions relating to L serial Numbers.

Best regards,

Peter (Lifeline)

lifeline
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Post by lifeline » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:05 am

Hi Peter and all

Yes, the change form the equals code to dash (minus) code and others is another mystery chapter in the Tokai experience.

In a previous post I?ve shown that the first Left hand production was exported April 1984. L22746, L22816 LH Goldstar ST55L?s both have neck and body codes 4=8, purchased August 1984. The earliest maple neck LH code I?ve come across has month code of ? 2? e.g 21064 2=5 YSO V, 21221 2=5 BBZ, earliest LH maple neck serial 19539 from forum member Bazz, codes unknown.

Using these production months and serials as a reference, I wonder if the change to using the various different codes minus, dot etc is around April 1984 ? I am basing this on the following observations of L serial plate guitars only including guitars owned. I could be completely wrong though I would appreciate any thoughts and corrections:

Up to L23000 Neck and body codes appear to have the equals code

L23000 to L26999 Various neck/body codes ensue:
Equals codes (6=7,6=7), Minus/dot (6-7,6.7), dot/equals(6.7,6=7), minus/minus (6-7,6-7) and ?No In between code? (6 7, 6 7) i.e. No equals minus(dash) - or dot between first and second numbers.

L27419 (Owned by bobtastik) to L32000 All neck codes are minus.

Are there L Serials beyond L32000?

Regards
Peter W.
(lifeline)

iainblack
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Post by iainblack » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:03 am

Wow Peter, detailed theory. It would be great if we could all put our guitar info into an excel spreadsheet which is basically the database but with a bit more clarity.

my metallic red Springy ST55 (matching headstock) is 1021437 10=6 MR X
my metallic blue goldie ST50 is 12431 7=1 MB Z
my sonic blue goldie (matching headstock) is 9=3 SO Z
Others in the book goldstar sound block logo ST55 (matching headstock) is L11236 5=12 MR X
and flamingo orange goldie ST55 18053 11=4 FO V

Peter Mac
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Post by Peter Mac » Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:52 pm

Hi Iain,

Your Sonic Blue ST55 with painted headstock should be re-classified as ST60* due to the extra 5,000yen to paint it.
The MR are still ST-55 because it was one of the 5 standard colours for ST models. MB, SO and FO are all custom colours and were 5,000yen extra.
This means your ST 50 MB should be an ST-55 MB
Breakdown should be like this:
ST-50 - 50,000 + Custom colour 5,000 + Painted headstock 5,000

regards
Peter Mac
The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.

lifeline
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Post by lifeline » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:46 am

Iain and Peter

Many thanks for your replys and code detail much appreciated. Yes, a Master Excel sheet is needed for all our findings.

I will follow up over this weekend when time allows.

regards
Peter

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