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Is the holy grail realy the best?
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Joop
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Joined: 10 May 2008
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Location: Heemskerk, Holland

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:38 am    Post subject: Is the holy grail realy the best? Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

We all know the stories about the original 57 and 59 Gibson Les Pauls that are worth fortunes. Still today many guitar players today would prefer let's say a Gibson (original, custom shop, VOS) over some of the MIJ guitars...

Personally speaking I still believe that the brand of a guitar chances the perception some one has even before he/she picks up the instrument and that people are looking to confirm their vested opinions.

However, I wonder what they would chose as their favourite instrument if they were to play them blind folded? In other words, blind fold a group of 20 guitar players and let them play different instruments (for example all Les Pauls) and afterwards let them say which ones they preferred and why. That would be the ultimate test, woudn't it?

I came accross this article about a vintage instrument that is perhaps the most famous of all.... the Stradivarius violin.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/deceptivecadence/2012/01/02/144482863/double-blind-violin-test-can-you-pick-the-strad

Interesting story....

Greetings,

Joop
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chu71
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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Location: madrid

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think acoustic instruments are different. I have no doubt a strad or a guarneri will kill most modern instruments under most violinists hands. With electric guitars you have a signal chain ...

I know for a fact the Auditorium in Madrid owns three different steinway D grand pianos. All taken care of and stored in the same room, all identical construction, all watched by the same technician. Well, most pianists who perform there (i am talking world class classical pianists) consistently chose the same one over and over again.
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jacco
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Joined: 25 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me there's no difference; I always test my LPs acoustically, if they fail, they go.
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Joop
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Joined: 10 May 2008
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Location: Heemskerk, Holland

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:34 am    Post subject: Is the holy grail really the best? Reply with quote

jacco wrote:
For me there's no difference; I always test my LPs acoustically, if they fail, they go.


Hi Jacco,

I agree that unplugged a guitar has to sound (and feel) good with a nice sustain.

What else are you looking for? Volume of the guitar accoustically? Brightness?

Please explain a bit more about how you test a guitar.


Alvast Bedankt!

Joop
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jacco
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Joined: 25 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually depth; a combination of a wide frequency response, resonance and dynamics, per string that is, on the complete neck but at least in the places where my fingers will be most of the time.
I have found that I don't like an overly bright guitar but further I don't care for every guitar has some characteristics that I like. Volume doesn't matter either to me, this all can be compensated with pickups & amp.

Graag gedaan!
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spikeymikey
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Joined: 28 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jacco wrote:
For me there's no difference; I always test my LPs acoustically, if they fail, they go.


Word.
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Cali Girl
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Joined: 08 Apr 2009
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jacco wrote:
For me there's no difference; I always test my LPs acoustically, if they fail, they go.


But what if it sounded great through an amp
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AlanN
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Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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Location: Lancashire, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're confusing "best" with "most desirable" - which rare and antique instruments are.

As a fellow over on the MR forums said recently - a Louis XIV-era desk works exactly the same as a modern one. It doesn't magically make your writing better, nor your wit more witty, nor your prose more prosaic; it's a desk. What it is is very, very rare, and therefore almost priceless in a market where there are interested buyers with massive amounts of money. Even a good vintage copy of said desk demands a large sum of money... which brings us neatly onto the Tokai forums, hooray!
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jacco
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cali Girl wrote:
jacco wrote:
For me there's no difference; I always test my LPs acoustically, if they fail, they go.


But what if it sounded great through an amp


Impossible!
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jacco
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Joined: 25 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlanN wrote:
You're confusing "best" with "most desirable" - which rare and antique instruments are.

As a fellow over on the MR forums said recently - a Louis XIV-era desk works exactly the same as a modern one. It doesn't magically make your writing better, nor your wit more witty, nor your prose more prosaic; it's a desk. What it is is very, very rare, and therefore almost priceless in a market where there are interested buyers with massive amounts of money. Even a good vintage copy of said desk demands a large sum of money... which brings us neatly onto the Tokai forums, hooray!


Alan, well put! Are you a writer?
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Joop
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Joined: 10 May 2008
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Location: Heemskerk, Holland

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:34 am    Post subject: Is the holy grail really the best Reply with quote

AlanN wrote:
You're confusing "best" with "most desirable" - which rare and antique instruments are.

As a fellow over on the MR forums said recently - a Louis XIV-era desk works exactly the same as a modern one. It doesn't magically make your writing better, nor your wit more witty, nor your prose more prosaic; it's a desk. What it is is very, very rare, and therefore almost priceless in a market where there are interested buyers with massive amounts of money. Even a good vintage copy of said desk demands a large sum of money... which brings us neatly onto the Tokai forums, hooray!


Hi Alan,

Yes, you are absolutely right and I guess that the musicians in the article I quoted all would have liked to own a Strad. My point more or less is that I don't think that people have ever done a blind test and judge an instrument just on how it sounds and feels, without looking at the brand.

Don't know much about violins but my guess is that the necks would be all pretty similar in terms of width, etc whereas with Les Pauls you have so many varieties. I once owned a Gibson Custom Shop 1968 reissue Les Paul Custom and I sold it on because the neck was too fat for my liking. However, the guitar oozed quality and sounded beautiful. However, what if they were all build with the same necks, etc. would people pick out their favourite instrument in a blind test?

Anyway, enough about violins.... let's rock!!

Joop
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chu71
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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Location: madrid

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I , a few years ago, bough a G&L telecaster, factory ordered, thinline , orange with the f hole, beaitiful guitar. 1300 usd i think i paid.
At the same time i ordered a 350 usd tele from agile the one with SD pickups.

One month after receiving the G&L i sold it. The Agile sounded and felt better, and proof was teh fact that after having both for a month, i was playing the agile for an hour every 10 minutes i played he G&L (which, btw, came with a high fret and an annoying buzz on the 12th fret).
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mcdeadcat
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 19
Location: Chelsea

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Is the holy grail really the best? Reply with quote

Joop wrote:
Hi Guys,

We all know the stories about the original 57 and 59 Gibson Les Pauls that are worth fortunes. Still today many guitar players today would prefer let's say a Gibson (original, custom shop, VOS) over some of the MIJ guitars...

Personally speaking I still believe that the brand of a guitar chances the perception some one has even before he/she picks up the instrument and that people are looking to confirm their vested opinions.

However, I wonder what they would chose as their favourite instrument if they were to play them blind folded? In other words, blind fold a group of 20 guitar players and let them play different instruments (for example all Les Pauls) and afterwards let them say which ones they preferred and why. That would be the ultimate test, woudn't it?

I came accross this article about a vintage instrument that is perhaps the most famous of all.... the Stradivarius violin.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/deceptivecadence/2012/01/02/144482863/double-blind-violin-test-can-you-pick-the-strad

Interesting story....

Greetings,

Joop


The strings are the core, the source of the vibration, the acoustic body only resonates to the frequencies the string generates. Always worth popping on a new set of strings 12 hours before an important performance. Even a Strad suffers with shot strings!
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mirrorboy
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Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 491
Location: U.K.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True the strings are the initial source. Then, dependent on their anchorage and bridge transmission properties, they interact with body and neck materials in very subtle ways.

One would need extremely expensive and sophisticated analytical instruments to measure the unique characteristics of individual but similar instruments, but there is nothing to compare with an experienced ear. I admit that I am easily pleased as far as electric guitars go, but there are others who will seek out the finer instruments not just for appearance or rarity but for their unique intrinsic qualities.
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jacco
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Joined: 25 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautifully said!
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