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Tokai Quality Fading?
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THE RISING FORCE
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Joined: 26 Jul 2009
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Location: Los Angeles, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:29 pm    Post subject: Tokai Quality Fading? Reply with quote

Ive read that Ishibashi dropped Tokai because of diminishing quality. Is this true? Havr you noticed the changes to the newer Tokais'?
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Diamond
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Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BS

I see and play all the different guitar brands everyday of my life, from American PRS to Gibson Custom Shop hanging side by side with Tokais in music stores (something you'll never see in the USA).
You could put the PRS decal on a 2010 Tokai LS92 and it would breeze through PRS USA quality control.

That Ishibashi story is years old and is basically internet BS.

In the last few years I bought a bunch of CIJ Fenders from Ishibashi, every one flawless...did Ishibashi forget they were made by Tokai?
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JonnyFriendly
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah - complete rubbish - for my money Tokai have some of the best quality control out there
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JVsearch
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Joined: 01 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JonnyFriendly wrote:
Yeah - complete rubbish - for my money Tokai have some of the best quality control out there


Sorry but there have been some problems, like the several examples of tail piece studs that have bent.
Yes, I realise that Tokai don't make those parts, but somebody may be cutting corners somewhere, and that always makes me wonder if other corners are being cut as well.
Ultimately it's Tokai's problem no matter who manufactures the bits.

Then again, maybe it was just a bad batch, and parts like that are an easy fix, so not the end of the world.

But yeah, the necks, bodies, finishes and overall construction seems to be very good, and like you guys say, probably one of the best.

I've never even heard that Ishibashi story regarding Tokai. Personally I suspect that Fender were involved with them dropping Tokai guitars...
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felixcatus
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVsearch wrote:


Sorry but there have been some problems, like the several examples of tail piece studs that have bent.

These problems only seem to occur with 2008/09 production year guitars. (correct me if I'm wrong)


JVsearch wrote:

I've never even heard that Ishibashi story regarding Tokai.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6043&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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looktoyourorb
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Joined: 16 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diamond wrote:
BS

I see and play all the different guitar brands everyday of my life, from American PRS to Gibson Custom Shop hanging side by side with Tokais in music stores (something you'll never see in the USA).
You could put the PRS decal on a 2010 Tokai LS92 and it would breeze through PRS USA quality control.

That Ishibashi story is years old and is basically internet BS.

In the last few years I bought a bunch of CIJ Fenders from Ishibashi, every one flawless...did Ishibashi forget they were made by Tokai?


+1 - PRS and Tokai are the only 2 brands that consistantly deliver quality and playability - I have played and owned many brands as Diamond.
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Pegcityrocker
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Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I contacted Ishibashi a few years ago about purchasing a new Tokai from them, they told me they weren't carrying them any more because of slow supply. They were always back-ordered and customers don't like to wait. The production couldn't keep up with demand which I would see as a very good sign for the quality of new Tokai's. Tokai didn't compromise by speeding up production for Ishibashi. That's the story Ishibashi gave me anyway.

Maybe instead of "diminishing quality" it should have read "diminishing quantity". You know how things get get lost in translation.
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luis
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you check for japanese Tokai production figures, you will noticed it?s not possible filling all the demand.Those numbers were a plus to me back when I toured the factory in 2.002,so you make a very good product because were not so pushed by demand,just for standards factory quality. Let?s face it: there is not enough japanese Tokai Hammamatsu factory made(the real and worth Tokais to me) to fill recent demamd. That is the reason some delaers had to ask chinese factories to make chinese Tokais under his own supervision and far from Hamammatsu check in to fill demand with a great marketing planning.I dont?t buy this but you know...bussiness is buissiness.
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Diamond
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pegcityrocker wrote:
When I contacted Ishibashi a few years ago about purchasing a new Tokai from them, they told me they weren't carrying them any more because of slow supply. They were always back-ordered and customers don't like to wait. The production couldn't keep up with demand which I would see as a very good sign for the quality of new Tokai's. Tokai didn't compromise by speeding up production for Ishibashi. That's the story Ishibashi gave me anyway.

Maybe instead of "diminishing quality" it should have read "diminishing quantity". You know how things get get lost in translation.


There you go, that's the true story about Ishibashi.

It takes Tokai 4 to 5 months to manufacture an order for a distributor/dealer.
If you try speed that up and increase production you end up with a Gibson USA mass produced "plekked" guitar that needs 8 hours of setup work and a neck joint held together with 'resin' ...no thanks!
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JVsearch
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Joined: 01 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

felixcatus wrote:
JVsearch wrote:


Sorry but there have been some problems, like the several examples of tail piece studs that have bent.

These problems only seem to occur with 2008/09 production year guitars. (correct me if I'm wrong)


JVsearch wrote:

I've never even heard that Ishibashi story regarding Tokai.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6043&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


Ok, that's from 2006 when Tokai were making the MIJ Fenders! Reading between the lines it does seem like the problem was more to do with not being able to get stock.

And that was probably due to their Fender MIJ commitments.
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THE RISING FORCE
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alright that helps a lot.cause I really want to buy a LS250 this year just saving more money for it. I dunno where to buy.I wonder if they accept direct orders..
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Pegcityrocker
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes they do accept direct orders. The only problem is they have to use the "modified headstock" for orders being shipped to North America. I tried to get one a few months ago and that's what they told me.
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Diamond
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE RISING FORCE wrote:
alright that helps a lot.cause I really want to buy a LS250 this year just saving more money for it. I dunno where to buy.I wonder if they accept direct orders..


LS250?

My suggestion would be an LS160 or LS150 AAA.

Why would you order direct from Tokai when you can buy one from an online dealer/store in Japan/UK/Germany/etc, at the same price?
There's no way a direct order from Tokai will be cheaper than buying from a dealer.
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Pegcityrocker
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to order direct because I wanted a fatter neck than what comes standard on production Love Rocks.
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THE RISING FORCE
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

does the new ULS150 still has the long neck tenon? I prefer the old head stock. whats the difference between the ULS150 and LS250?
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