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Finish problems
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Koubayashi
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Joined: 13 Dec 2008
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Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:11 pm    Post subject: Finish problems Reply with quote

Well, High end Burny with nitro finish.
The finish has gotten all milky and strange.

Does anyone know any trick or magic to make it normal again?


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DaveWW
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Joined: 11 Apr 2007
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Location: North East UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could try brasso with a polishing cloth. I used it on an old navigator and it worked amazingly well. You might want to test it somewhere inconspicuous first though! The brasso seems to remove muck, slightly dissolve the top layer of the nitro and polish the surface but not aggressively. Silvo might be even better as it has finer polishing particles but I've never tried that.

Dave
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveWW wrote:
You could try brasso with a polishing cloth. I used it on an old navigator and it worked amazingly well. You might want to test it somewhere inconspicuous first though! The brasso seems to remove muck, slightly dissolve the top layer of the nitro and polish the surface but not aggressively. Silvo might be even better as it has finer polishing particles but I've never tried that.

Dave


Will try that in the weekend.
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marcusnieman
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Joined: 22 May 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people use McGuire's car polish.... but there are several different qualities. Not sure which one.

That hazing might be from an issue from a chemical reaction with a plush lined case.
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Big Willie Style
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koub, my '05 LS-150 did that VERY slightly in a couple of places but nothing like that! Mine looks like a bit of a smudge in a couple of places and a scratch in another. It's not a scratch, or a crack though, strange.

Best of luck sorting that out.

Jason
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Deadman
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Joined: 04 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blimey. I've got two assumptions as to what's happened to that:

1. It could be oxidisation. Caused by the elements. Which one? My guess would be H2O. Where's it been? Looks like it's been kept somewhere damp for an extended period of its life.

2. Failing that, someone has 'had a go' at either refinishing it or cleaning it with a harsh thinner and made a real mess of the cellulose finish. This is the most likely reason.

The thing with cellulose finishes is not to be too scared of them. Yes, they wear rapidly, unlike polyurethane, but that's a good thing when incidents such as this occur. It means it can and will polish out. As long as you don't use any harsh chemicals near cellulose its perfectly safe to work with.

You need to use a 'cutting compound' to polish it, effectively removing layers of the cellulose finish to reveal the fresh stuff underneath, leaving it shiny (hopefully!) The thing to remember is the composition of the cellulose lacquer that's been applied. It has been applied in many stages. Layer after layer. Its a single based material, thin and weak in its make up, unlike polyurethane that is only applied in two to three coats because its a two pack material, incorporating a chemical hardner. That's what gives poly its strength.

This polishing is all done with good old elbow grease. Buy some 'T cut' or 'Meguiars paint cleaner' as one knowledgable poster highlighted and use a clean, damp cloth with a liberable amount of compound each time using a circular motion to polish. Buff every so often to remove the resultant haze and see where you're at. If it still looks bad, you haven't done enough polishing. More elbow grease is in order.

If you appear to be breaking through to the woodstain that created the burst and it still looks bad, a refinish is in order.

If you're happy, apply a good quality car wax (I use autoglym) and you're done.

I wish you were near me as I'd like nothing more than to get that off you and make it look good as new.

Keep us informed and good luck
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JVsearch
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Joined: 01 Jan 2009
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I was told that opaque looking effect on finish was due to moisture getting in between the layers of finish, and is impossible to fix without a re-finish.

Hopefully that isn't what's happened to yours, and it will just cut and polish out.
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DaveWW
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Joined: 11 Apr 2007
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Location: North East UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All good advice. I've only ever used Brasso and whilst the other cutting compounds like T-Cut will be good as well the thing about Brasso when I used it is that it actually slightly dissolves the top layer of nitro. This reduced the need for quite so much elbow grease. I was working on a very badly damaged natural relic and even where I went down to bare wood (not that I'm suggesting that in this case) under the stain the process re-applied a nice thin shiny layer of nitro. I've got photos of the navigator on the site here and everyone who sees it thinks it looks great. I think I'd use the more traditional purpose made polishing compounds if I wanted to work on a new guitar but on this one I'd definitely try some Brasso on the sides to see how it comes up.

It'll be interesting to see how you get on so as said by others please keep us posted.

Dave
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm gonna try to find som brasso today.

Will post the result as soon as it is finished!
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DaveWW
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hesitate to tell you this but if you want something a bit more drastic in the damaged areas try a bit of wire wool with the brasso.

Dave
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Mick51
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Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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Location: Urbandale, Iowa, USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveWW wrote:
Hesitate to tell you this but if you want something a bit more drastic in the damaged areas try a bit of wire wool with the brasso.

Dave


Really fine steel (wire) wool - 0000 or 00000, no coarser.
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing works on this finish...
Refin on its way!
Stripped the back today...
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DaveWW
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a shame. Did the milky stain go all the way through?

Dave
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveWW wrote:
That's a shame. Did the milky stain go all the way through?

Dave


Yep!
As a final desperate attempt I tried to sand it with 1200 but I had to rub down the finish to the grainfiller to get rid of the clouds.

I'll have it refined. It'll be a great goldtop
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Deadman
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Joined: 04 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a shame. If it's gone right through it's technical term is 'blushing'. It's caused by humidity as I said earlier.

Goldtops are lovely anyway. Happy days
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