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QUACK!!!

 
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guitarboy
Guitar God


Joined: 09 Dec 2001
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 10:51 am    Post subject: QUACK!!! Reply with quote

To save any more blushes I have removed this post



GB


Last edited by guitarboy on Fri Oct 04, 2002 5:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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loverockerUK
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

null

Last edited by loverockerUK on Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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apmechling
Sus4add11


Joined: 25 Apr 2002
Posts: 39
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2002 8:23 am    Post subject: Hey Hey Hey Reply with quote

Hey, Hey, Hey, Be Nice... I just saw my first Tokai less than 9 months ago, so excuse me if I got the date wrong - I changed it right away, as soon as I found out it was a '98. On this website - it even says that the LS-70 models were reissues of the '56 LP. So what gives? Am I missing something? In the neck pickup well, there it is, plain as day - LS-70P - it does NOT say LS-70F - the "F" is joined on the end, forming a "P." I have no idea what that means, but that's what it says under there, factory stamped.
And I really don't know what's wrong with describing the finish - it is different than 90% of LPs I've played, and that number is in the hundreds. An email helping me out with the right info. would have been a little nicer than having to read this.

Sorry if I got some initial info. wrong on my listing, but I changed it to reflect the new info. as soon as I could, less than 12 hours after the listing.

I don't have 147+ awesome feedbacks on eBay from happy Tokai players for nothing - my guitars ARE all sweet guitars. This LS-70P is one of the nicest Love Rocks I ever had. It plays just as sweet as my '85 LS-150 Flame Top, although a bit heavier than I like or I would have kept it.
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guitarboy
Guitar God


Joined: 09 Dec 2001
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2002 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apmechling,

Here's some info for you:

If we take the Gibson side of things - 1956 :

The pick-ups would be soap bars not HB's
The bridge would be a single wrap over type
not the tune-o-matic.

The finish would be a gold.

Gibson didn't add tune-o-matics and HB's until '57
and didn't do their first 'burst until 58.
The production stopped altogether in '60.

The difference between a '59 and a '60 is silver tops on the
pots and a slimmer neck profile.

So yours would probably be a '59 replica.

Tokai don't make LS 70P's
they do 70 F's and 70 Q's
The F stands for flame and the Q for quilt.

I would guess the stamp smudged the F into a P.

The finish used on these is everyday poly found on 99% of the cheaper and some not so cheap guitars.

Gibson use cellulose laquer - it's harder to get a polished finish and costs more, but it let's the wood breathe and is what was used on the original bursts.

From that angle I think you'll agree it's the Gibson finish that is special.

Tokai do put cellulose on their Higher end range - LS200 LS320.

Finally the flame top on the 70F is a veneer - it's not a solid flame cap.
It still has a Solid maple cap under the veneer which Tokai put on to give it the look of an expensive burst.

You should be carefull here because your add states that it is definitely a 'solid flame cap' - sorry but it's not and as such you are misleading the buyer even if unintentionally.

Most of what I have said above is common knowledge to the people who would be looking at your add.

What can I say sometimes you find out the hard way.

Still welcome to the site and I hope you find the above useful.

This is a cool site and Tokai make really great guitars I hope you stick around - especially if you're going to be finding rare Tokai's and letting us know first

GB

p.s. despite our differences above your LS70F is still a great guitar and as far as I have ever seen there is no such thing as a bad Tokai.
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ramsale
Guitar God


Joined: 27 Mar 2002
Posts: 193
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2002 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apmechling: I have watched your guitars and the feedback you have earned on eBay for a long time, and you are doing something right. I would be bidding on your equipment if it wasn't for the high shipping from Japan... I hope you will keep up posted on your finds, and stick around the website in the future. There are some strange folks selling questionable guitars online, but YOU'RE not one of 'em... Welcome to the Registry, and keep finding those flametops!
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Tony o'Riordan
Guitar God


Joined: 01 Mar 2002
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2002 12:48 pm    Post subject: hey hey hey, hey Reply with quote

I agree with ramsale. I recall seeing a post on the forum from self-appointed 'experts' questioning a springy sound model that apmechling was selling on ebay - implying it was a rebadged guitar because it wasn't a 1957 or a 1964 model. I actually had the same model so I know that at least if he doesn't always have all the facts, he's not busy lasering out springy sound logos and lacquering them up for sale on ebay. He's in Japan for God's sake, don't you think he may have access to some genuine old Tokais there? If you spot a mistake, tell him, he seems quite open to the information.

Ciao,

Tony
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apmechling
Sus4add11


Joined: 25 Apr 2002
Posts: 39
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2002 5:57 pm    Post subject: Thanks Tony - Reply with quote

Hey Tony -

I appreciate your vote of confidence, too.

I am in Tokyo, like you said, so I do see hundereds of Tokais every time I decide to go guitar shopping. Since I have so many of them to choose from, I only buy the ones that have straight necks and are original. The Japanese are a very honest peoples, and will tell me if a guitar has been modified at all. I actually was going to buy a Springy Sound at one shop and the manager came over and told me it was not a good choice because the neck truss rod has already been tightened to the max and there is still a bow in the neck! I was more than thankful for him being so honest, so now I always go there because I trust him.

Yeah, sometimes Tokai made Springy Sounds that were kind of Frankensteinish - like I sold a 1981 Springy '50s Reissue that was mint and original, but had a 3-tone sunburst finish It was a gorgeous guitar, but obviously not quite an exact replica of the year or era.

I recall also having a '64 Reissue Springy with the '58 reissue body & pickguard - I tought that one was really strange, but the previous owner swore up and down he bought it new in '80 and hadn't changed a thing.
The neck & body also looked like a match, too.

I think that's the beauty about Tokais because you really never know what you'll find next
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lawtone
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 12 Jun 2002
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2002 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've bought several guitars from apmechling, and he has never misrepresented them in any fashion. He obviously made some mistakes in the current listing, especially regarding the solid flame top, but there is a big difference between a mistake and intentional fraud. I would buy from him again anytime. There are other dealers and sellers of Tokais engaged in shill bidding and fraud. He is not one of them.

Older tokais can have very odd and inconsistent features and finishes. I've seen some strats with a true 62' screw placement on the pickguard, whereas most of the 60's have the standard 11 hole guard. I've seen two tone and three tone sunburst 50's AND 60's strats. Tokais were not always historically accurate copies. Some confusion is to be expected.
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guitarboy
Guitar God


Joined: 09 Dec 2001
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lawtone,

If I was nit picking about some minor detail I would agree with you, but if I'd just bought a solid maple flame on ebay only to find that it was a veneer I'd be more than just a little hacked off.

Wouldn't you?

Tell you what, next time I spot an erroneous description I'll keep to myself.

GB
p.s I also think apmechling is a stand up guy which is why I removed the initial posting!
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ramsale
Guitar God


Joined: 27 Mar 2002
Posts: 193
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GB: Keep your eyes open, and keep us informed. I have been known to jump into an auction without doing my homework first, and the extra advice, tips, etc. from you guys on the Registry has helped me out alot. The proper way to handle an unintentional error on a listing is to go back in and change the description with added info. If a seller WON'T do at least THAT much, after a problem is pointed out, people need to be warned. It all breaks down to what kind of seller is putting product on the market. I'm sure glad to have the added knowledge before clicking in a bid on something. If it weren't for others looking at the auctions carefully, alot of us new to the game would get burnt.

Last edited by ramsale on Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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apmechling
Sus4add11


Joined: 25 Apr 2002
Posts: 39
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I've done in the past is just emailed each individual bidder about the issue I have with the guitar, especially if it was completely misrepresented intentionally. Then sometimes they withdraw their bids and leave a message that the guitar was misrepresented, and that pretty much jinxes the auction.

Also, if an item just has a mistake in it that I know should be corrected, I just email the seller and give them the info. and they usually update their auctions, being honest... BUT...

There was this guy a while back selling a guitar similar to one I had just sold and when I read the auction description, it started like...

"Hi, I am currently a teacher in Tokyo and have just found a really nice guitar I can offer you..." and I realized that it was MY description I was reading!

The jerk actually stole ALL of my text from my auction and used it for his auction! Then I wrote him about it, and he actually tried to tell me that there was no error in his listing, so I asked him where in Tokyo he was and what school he taught at and he never replied. I went out of my way to sabotage his auction by reporting him to eBay and warning all of his bidders then, because he was trying to be ME. I know I'm cool and everything, but come on now! Stealing someone's identity is pretty bad.

But I agree with all you guys, we really should warn folks if we see ahead o time that something they're selling is not entirely correct, or if they're bidding on something we KNOW is a scam attempt, we should warn them. I know you guys have helped me when I list something that has a mistake, and I really felt good when I bid on a Fender '59 neck a while back, went away for the weekend, and came back to be swamped with emails from people genuinely ehlping out, telling me that the guitar neck was a fake. I mean, I got like 30 emails! Makes you feel good to know others are watching out for you - APM
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