1999 Tokai Love Rock LS75F....

Japanese made or "other"?

Has 2 hole truss rod but you know how that can go...

Caveats?

Thanks!

Russ

Should be Japanese - korean would be an ALS model, and they certainly didn't got to 75,000 yen in 1999.

The Fs are a laminate flame sycamore top over a solid maple cap.

Hi Alan,

Thanks for the evaluation on the small info I had on the Tokai Les Paul copy. Here's the photo's of the guitar I didn't have when I posted the question about the authenticity/origins of the instrument according to an add I found.

http://s907.photobucket.com/albums/ac278/N91592/TokaiLS75K/

Anybody else have an idea if this is indeed a LS75K like the seller is claiming and where is it from and are they inflating the "75" amount to make it seem a more valuable guitar than it probably is?!

Thanks again,

Russ

How much are they asking, Russ? They were excellent guitars even back in 1999 - don't forget that the exchange rate now isn't the same as it was then, and neither was the Japanese economy; how much they're inflating by is going to depend on, well, inflation

Unfortunately that link shows me no pictures at all. Can you save them and upload them to somewhere like tinypic.com?

Alan, et. al..

Sorry the photobucket was blank (IDI10T) I've forgot to save the pics, although, I don't think much can be gleened on this guitar from the pics, except its a Love Rock with 2 screw truss rod cover...(or at least a picture of one somewhere ) Here's the URL again:

http://s907.photobucket.com/albums/ac278/N91592/TokaiLS75K/

The advertised price for the guitar is 700 USD.

Thanks!

Russ

That's a Gibson TRC they've put on there, but the nut looks like bone which is a good indicator that it's MIJ. The clincher is the bridge posts, which appear to screw directly into the body - again this is a sign that it's MIJ and not MIK/MIC. The back of the headstock will give the serial number (should start 99 for a 1999 guitar). I'd say it's almost certainly what he says it is.

$700 is a decent price I think as the condition looks great. Don't forget that even in modern money, 75000 yen would be $900 - and the modern equivalent is the LS95F, which would come in at $1,133. Can one of our American chums comment on the second hand price for a LS75F/95F?

Alan,

I re-read the ad and the Tokai pictured with the Gibson TRC also has a Tusq nut on the neck. Does anybody know about these aftermarket nuts and does it necessitate installing another (non-Tokai) truss rod cover? These are some examples of why, as a responder to one of my frequent "Where did this guitar come from" posts, I am very skeptical of internet sold guitars...

Hope someone can answer the above questions. I don't think the seller would cheat anyone but he may not have been the modification party and doesn't know the guitar isn't made in Japan possibly?

Thanks,

Russ

Hi Russ,

Tusq is a good after-market replacement for plastic nuts (which the LS75F would have come with if memory serves) - it's supposed to have the acoustic properties of bone/ivory, without having to hack up an elephant to get it. In practice I have heard an improvement with them - it's fairly subtle, but it's there; a little extra sustain.

The Tokai TRC it would have come with is fine, though very different from the Gibson one. Some people seem to want to dress their Tokais up to be as close to the Gibson look as possible (including those naughty folks who put a Gibson logo on the headstock). So nope - not necessary at all; it's purely aesthetic. The one thing I would ask him is if an extra hole was drilled for the TRC, as if it's a Gibson replacement I think the holes didn't line up 100%. I'd get him to take off the TRC and photograph the area underneath - that way you'll see either:

1) evidence of 3 screw holes, and a new 4th (Korean guitar);
2) evidence of 2 screw holes, and a new one (Japanese guitar);
3) evidence of 2 screw holes, and no new one (Japanese guitar, aftermarket Tokai specific TRC)
4) evidence of a fill and paint job (either way depending on where the fills were).

Can you get some pics of the back while you're talking to the guy? And the case too if there is one.

Alan

Thanks Alan,

Great information! I orignally (last night) emailed the gent asking if there was any particular reason for the "aftermarket" TRC and haven't heard back from him as of early early here this a.m. Before I ask if he's willing to take the cover off and photograph the headstock and back I have added a case picture which I'm hoping might clue you in even further as to the origins of this instrument. It's in the original URL @ photobucket as follows:

http://s907.photobucket.com/albums/ac278/N91592/TokaiLS75K/

Let me know if you think it looks Korean/Chinese in origin.

Thanks for all your help!

Cheers,

Russ

Doesn't look like any Tokai case I've seen - more like the Gibson LP Standard cases (might be by the same Canadian company who do the Gibbo cases). Nice case, anyway!

Edit: The headstock shot there shows the bone nut off in all its glory. I've never seen a Korean Tokai with anything but a plastic nut.

Another other tell-tale sign is the control cavity covers - only the Japanese guitars have black covers on the switch rout/controls rout. (Look for that on the pics of the reverse).

On top of that - the angled body pic seems to show the bridge posts going straight into the body. For all the nut replacement, TRC replacement, control cavity cover changes, pickup replacement etc you can perform to hide a Korean instrument, this is the dead giveaway that you cannot fake: this guitar is Japanese

Korean bridges, like the Chinese ones, screw into metal bases on the body. The Japanese instruments screw straight into the wood.

Here's an example of a Korean ALS-48:

http://daviscoltrane.hp.infoseek.co.jp/als48-5.jpg

Easy to spot the metal bushes at the base of the bridge screws.

MIJorMIK said:

I am very skeptical of internet sold guitars...

Click to expand...

*GASP*

Say it ain't so! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The guitar appears genuine MIJ and is as the seller described it (again...). Back then the only flametop MIJ guitars were the 75F or higher, so no worries on that front. There is no need for this guy to take his guitar apart for you, it's obvious even from the poor quality pictures he's already provided that it's what he says it is. Didn't you read my other post in your other thread with all the tell-tale signs to look out for?

The truss rod cover has been replaced because the Gibson bell-type looks a lot better and more Gibson-esque than the normal Tokai half-ellipse. Nothing to do with the nut replacement. A Tusq nut is actually a really nice upgrade to have, much better than the stock plastic and even better than bone IMO.

Please buy something soon! I know we emphasis caution and caveat emptor on this forum, but there comes a point where caution crosses over to paranoia. What was wrong with all the other guitars we've verified were genuine?

EDIT: regarding the drilling thing... some people have said the Gibson ones fit perfectly, others had trouble. It seems a bit hit and miss year after year. Even if it has been drilled it won't affect the value. Gibson covers are generally more favoured.