Orville Les Paul - Collectors nightmare, players dream?

Discussion area for Orville and Orville by Gibson guitars

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soundcreation
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Post by soundcreation » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:02 am

Joop wrote:
soundcreation wrote:That's all fine and dandy but him thinking it's worth 900+ US is really kind of a joke. Refinish should lower the value not raise it...I don't care if it's oil. by Gibson models can be had at that price range.

If he gets it then more power too him, but who ever buys it is getting ripped off.
Sorry Soundcreation, but you probably haven't looked at prices levels lately... Please inform me of ANY ObG's without scractches and dings for $900+ and I will buy them all!! A person that buys this guitar certainly does not get ripped off especially not with the better harware on it.

Apart from the look that you like or not, bet you that this is a really nice playing and sounding guitar and is that not what it is all about??
What Orville isn't going to have the odd scratch or ding? If that is your criteria for "value" then it's a very strange one. So it's been re finished...big deal. Still doesn't change what it is. And pickup swaps never increase value of guitars unless it's something super rare like a set of Dry Z's.

I guarantee if this were a gibson you wouldn't be talking the same way.

Take a look on yahoo japan right now....there are two black custom by Gibson's that look in very nice shape, both for 60000. I bet they don't get any bids, and could be had no higher than 70000. Even with fees and shipping they come out under a 1000.

And regular orvilles like his are no more than 800 bucks shipped.

And this guy is acting like this is some "extreme value"....give me a break.

It may be a great player....it may be a dog....I have no clue. But I wouldn't be taking a chance at that price and with that body. For the kind of dough he wants I could get a used bacchus duke out of japan with a two piece maple top 1 or 2 piece mahogany back and an oil finish that I guarantee would blow that orville out of the water.

I'm glad you had a good experience with the seller, and your loyalty to him is admirable...but THAT guitar is a rip off....period.

Joop
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Orville Les Paul - Collectors nightmare, players dream?

Post by Joop » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:16 am

soundcreation wrote:
Joop wrote:
soundcreation wrote:That's all fine and dandy but him thinking it's worth 900+ US is really kind of a joke. Refinish should lower the value not raise it...I don't care if it's oil. by Gibson models can be had at that price range.

If he gets it then more power too him, but who ever buys it is getting ripped off.
Sorry Soundcreation, but you probably haven't looked at prices levels lately... Please inform me of ANY ObG's without scractches and dings for $900+ and I will buy them all!! A person that buys this guitar certainly does not get ripped off especially not with the better harware on it.

Apart from the look that you like or not, bet you that this is a really nice playing and sounding guitar and is that not what it is all about??
What Orville isn't going to have the odd scratch or ding? If that is your criteria for "value" then it's a very strange one. So it's been re finished...big deal. Still doesn't change what it is. And pickup swaps never increase value of guitars unless it's something super rare like a set of Dry Z's.

I guarantee if this were a gibson you wouldn't be talking the same way.

Take a look on yahoo japan right now....there are two black custom by Gibson's that look in very nice shape, both for 60000. I bet they don't get any bids, and could be had no higher than 70000. Even with fees and shipping they come out under a 1000.

And regular orvilles like his are no more than 800 bucks shipped.

And this guy is acting like this is some "extreme value"....give me a break.

It may be a great player....it may be a dog....I have no clue. But I wouldn't be taking a chance at that price and with that body. For the kind of dough he wants I could get a used bacchus duke out of japan with a two piece maple top 1 or 2 piece mahogany back and an oil finish that I guarantee would blow that orville out of the water.

I'm glad you had a good experience with the seller, and your loyalty to him is admirable...but THAT guitar is a rip off....period.
Well, if you are patient and search carefully you will come accross mint Orvilles and by Gibsons. I just got an '95 Fujigen made ObG ES335 in mint condition, so they are out there. Who wants a battered and broozed guitar? At least this sellers shows detailed pictures and offers a full description, and not throw away comments like " in good condition for its age"

Plus he says that it is a collector's night mare. So he offering a player's guitar rather than a highly collectable one (Regular Orvilles will never be highly collectable, yes, maybe in 50 years when most have disappeared off the market but for now....)

I find it strange that you say that changed hardware does not add value to the guitar. I have changed the tuners on all my Orville (and by Gibson ones) for Gibsons and many Orvilles you see have changed tuners so that certainly adds value. Nearly all people change the Orville PU's but perhaps it is better to choose your own replacements, but you're going to fork out money for replacement PU's, so you're going to spend more than your original purchase price.

Concerning selling prices, there is something that may needs a bit explaining for non European forum members.

Us Europeans, we have to pay high shipping cost for a guitar from Japan, and on top of that import duty and most of all, we have to pay VAT. That can add between 17 and 25% (depending on which country you live in) on the total value of the guitar plus shipping cost plus duty).

So, if your guitar costs let's say $600 plus $120 shipping, your total bill could easily run up to $888 which is 48% higher than the original price tag of the guitar.

The seller of course, had to pay these cost never mind the 10% that ebay plus paypal will take off the selling price in fees (talking about a rip off). And what about his profit? Is he expected to live of charity?

All in all, not sure if your rip off comment is really justified. It is a different guitar and i hope that some one buys it, just to read the feedback later on :o)

Have a great weekend!

jacco
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Post by jacco » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:41 am

I have to back up Joop here regarding price. I bought a MIJ a few months back for 66000 yen which ended up being 1090 euro (that's 1460 USD) in Holland.

JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:44 pm

jacco wrote:I have to back up Joop here regarding price. I bought a MIJ a few months back for 66000 yen which ended up being 1090 euro (that's 1460 USD) in Holland.
Yeah, you guys are quite right about the pricing (YouamI must have got his sums wrong) but this guitar is not a good example of a LP. You would be better off paying $1500 for a good one, although it depends what you're buying it for: just a player to keep, or a collectable as well.

It's actually quite disappointing to see an ObG (supposedly the premium MIJ brand in some circles) with a body and top made of so many pieces. Sure, it may not affect the tone at all, we can't know that when buying off the internet, but the guitar is just not made like a top quality LP.
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

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Post by JohnA » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:14 pm

JVsearch wrote: It's actually quite disappointing to see an ObG (supposedly the premium MIJ brand in some circles) with a body and top made of so many pieces. Sure, it may not affect the tone at all, we can't know that when buying off the internet, but the guitar is just not made like a top quality LP.
Just checked the pics and was supprised to see that too, then I realised it's an Orville, not an OBG.

I know someone who had a real 57 goldtop refinished :o and the top was 5-piece

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Post by JVsearch » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:30 pm

JohnA wrote:
JVsearch wrote: It's actually quite disappointing to see an ObG (supposedly the premium MIJ brand in some circles) with a body and top made of so many pieces. Sure, it may not affect the tone at all, we can't know that when buying off the internet, but the guitar is just not made like a top quality LP.
Just checked the pics and was supprised to see that too, then I realised it's an Orville, not an OBG.

I know someone who had a real 57 goldtop refinished :o and the top was 5-piece
Hopefully it still had a one piece body?

And yeah, then there's the story about the guy who stripped his 57 GT and it had a flame maple 2 piece top! :o :lol:
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:00 pm

JohnA wrote:
JVsearch wrote: It's actually quite disappointing to see an ObG (supposedly the premium MIJ brand in some circles) with a body and top made of so many pieces. Sure, it may not affect the tone at all, we can't know that when buying off the internet, but the guitar is just not made like a top quality LP.
Just checked the pics and was supprised to see that too, then I realised it's an Orville, not an OBG.
Aha! I guess that makes it alright then?
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

JohnA
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Post by JohnA » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:56 pm

JVsearch wrote:
JohnA wrote:
JVsearch wrote: It's actually quite disappointing to see an ObG (supposedly the premium MIJ brand in some circles) with a body and top made of so many pieces. Sure, it may not affect the tone at all, we can't know that when buying off the internet, but the guitar is just not made like a top quality LP.
Just checked the pics and was supprised to see that too, then I realised it's an Orville, not an OBG.
Aha! I guess that makes it alright then?
as long as is sounds great who cares :wink:

JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:14 am

JohnA wrote:
JVsearch wrote:
JohnA wrote:
JVsearch wrote: It's actually quite disappointing to see an ObG (supposedly the premium MIJ brand in some circles) with a body and top made of so many pieces. Sure, it may not affect the tone at all, we can't know that when buying off the internet, but the guitar is just not made like a top quality LP.
Just checked the pics and was supprised to see that too, then I realised it's an Orville, not an OBG.
Aha! I guess that makes it alright then?
as long as is sounds great who cares :wink:
Yes, there may be no link whatsoever between build quality/methods and tone! :lol:
But nobody knows what this thing sounds like, and if it's a turd then buying it at the current price will probably mean the buyer loses out when re-selling. It should be a $1 auction IMO.
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

Koubayashi
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Post by Koubayashi » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:56 am

JohnA wrote:
JVsearch wrote: It's actually quite disappointing to see an ObG (supposedly the premium MIJ brand in some circles) with a body and top made of so many pieces. Sure, it may not affect the tone at all, we can't know that when buying off the internet, but the guitar is just not made like a top quality LP.
Just checked the pics and was supprised to see that too, then I realised it's an Orville, not an OBG.

I know someone who had a real 57 goldtop refinished :o and the top was 5-piece
I know of one and it is a 3-piece

japanstrat
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Post by japanstrat » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:45 am

Just about all guitar factories are going to cut costs on lower models by using what's around at the factory at the time.

With solid colours, they can hide multiple pieces of wood, especially for the top of a LP.

In my playing experience, the number of pieces of wood is not such a big deal to the final sound. I'ts more about what type the wood piecs are and also the state of the wood (moisture content etc) and how well the pickups match that particular guitar and pickup/guitar matching is a lot about personal taste and trial and error.

A guitar made from multiple pieces of wood and considered to be junk by the way it looks can often be made to sing with the right pickups that match that body according to personal taste.

Some pickups work well in some guitars and don't work as well in other guitars, it's a roulette wheel.

There are so many pickup variables, like windings, magnets coils spacings etc etc and combine this with wood variables like wood type, what part of the tree the wood pieces came from, wood moisture content and texture etc etc then it's just not really predictable what the final sound will be.

The guitar body combined with the pickups really form a frequency filter (like a EQ) that sets the overall frequency response just like speakers do and speaker frequency response is variable and so is the combined guitar/pickups frequency response and sustain also depends on how steep the filter cut off slope is..

Some guitar/pickup combos will cut the mids,highs,lows or boost the mids,highs or lows and it's not really predictable beforehand just what is going to happen with certain guitar/pickup combinations.

I can't really judge a guitar until I can try 5 or 6 different pickups in it.

A so called lemon is often a diamond if you can mix and match pickups.

Of course, multiple pieces of wood puts off guitar lookers who like to look at their guitars as if they were some exotic piece of furniture or whatever.
When I was a kid my parents moved a lot, but I always found them. Rodney Dangerfield

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Post by mojo hobo » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:58 am

When i saw that orville on the bay...i had a look at it..Nothing special ,just a stripped terada made custom..probadly a K-sticker .I have not seen a lot of stripped custom mij guitars,but what i do know is that a good percentage of custom orville,grecos,burnys are made using multiple bits of lumber.
Now the guitar in question is a real orville..but a k-sticker orville ,now because of this i would never buy it ,I had a k orville that was made like a jigsaw puzzle ,It was my 1 st MADE IN JAPAN LES PAUL i purchased ,At the time i when i first got it , i thought it was a good guitar..But i was never really 100% ,Its action was terrible ,i could never get it right ,But i was kinda happy with it ,after all it was a real ORVILLE it had to be good,why were everybody on these guitar forums raving about orvilles..
About 5 months later the gas hit again ,i went shopping for an OBG ,i brought a OBG reissue which turned out to be a OBG LPS-57C MODEL.

Well let me tell you the moment my hands picked up that OBG i knew what all the fuss was about..I played it for a hour and it rocked my world ,it blew the Sh**y K orville out of the water...

I am not saying that all k-orville are a plie of pooh ,like anything in life ,it is hit and miss ,as japanstrat said it all about the wood and how it sounds when put together..I am in two minds about the guitar in the auction ...Ok its a k-orville ,but it might just be a freaking good sounding example,What i do know is that removing the thick custom finish will have a effect of the sound of the thing in a positive way,I had a stripped top orville fujigen made and the difference to the tone was to open the guitar out a bit,more presence!

I guess will we ever know how good or bad that guitar might be ,we never played it...but we already played it in our minds and came to the conclusion it was crap...a conclusion influenced by the looks and the way the thing was and is constructed ...Yes!!! no!!!

Somebody brought it for ?557 ,a pretty good price for a k-orville.

MOJO HOBO

Joop
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collector's night mare

Post by Joop » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:26 am

Hi,

I am just wondering why some people are jumping to the conclusion that it was a K serial number Orville. I have never seen a Custom version with a K serial number but maybe that is just my lack of information....

The way that Orvilles have ink are stamped serial numbers, it would be logical that if you're going to strip a guitar of its paint, the serial number will disappear as well. So, again it does not have to be a K serial Orville.

To me, a guitar is as good as the hands that play it. If you hear a pro guitarist play an Orville (with some mods) you'll know exactly what I mean. No doubt, the guy I have in mind would make the guitar in this topic sing like a nighting gale in a huricane!

Let's await the feedback on the auction. I hope that the person will be pleased with his guitar...

barburny
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Post by barburny » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:04 pm

am just wondering why some people are jumping to the conclusion that it was a K serial number Orville. I have never seen a Custom version with a K serial number but maybe that is just my lack of information....
Joop ,I have one

Washington Irving
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Post by Washington Irving » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:46 pm

After all, the seller did write, that it was a K serial. It's in the Q&A part of the listing. You don't have to wonder anymore ;)

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