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This Guy it's crazy !!!!
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JVsearch
Guitar God


Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 2017
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koubayashi wrote:
Trying to make money selling used things are pretty darn stupid 2010


Although it is now more important than ever that we re-use items rather than throwing them away, as we we will hit max garbage on the planet at some point.
Sure, who gives a sh*t, it's not my problem... well, if you have kids then you should be doing whatever you can.

Watch out for the capitalist wet dream where all consumers are buying a new thing every f*ckin' day!
That is, protest to manufacturers when goods are of such low quality that they only last a few months, send them back, demand refunds, it's the only bit of power we have left!

Back to guitars though
I would have thought that good quality guitars are ideal for selling as used items?
And don't forget, the existence of a market for used items allows there to be a healthy market for new items.
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVsearch wrote:
Koubayashi wrote:
Trying to make money selling used things are pretty darn stupid 2010


Although it is now more important than ever that we re-use items rather than throwing them away, as we we will hit max garbage on the planet at some point.
Sure, who gives a sh*t, it's not my problem... well, if you have kids then you should be doing whatever you can.

Watch out for the capitalist wet dream where all consumers are buying a new thing every f*ckin' day!
That is, protest to manufacturers when goods are of such low quality that they only last a few months, send them back, demand refunds, it's the only bit of power we have left!

Back to guitars though
I would have thought that good quality guitars are ideal for selling as used items?
And don't forget, the existence of a market for used items allows there to be a healthy market for new items.


You misunderstood my point (well, I wasn't very clear).
I mean that it is not very bright to try to sell used guitars when there are a billion zillion sale sites, forums etc on internet. Go to a shop, find a Greco xxx-model and check the price....the same guitar will be much cheaper to buy from Rinkya. Where would you buy it if the shop is about 50-100% more expensive?

That was my intended point
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JVsearch
Guitar God


Joined: 01 Jan 2009
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koubayashi wrote:
You misunderstood my point (well, I wasn't very clear).
I mean that it is not very bright to try to sell used guitars when there are a billion zillion sale sites, forums etc on internet. Go to a shop, find a Greco xxx-model and check the price....the same guitar will be much cheaper to buy from Rinkya. Where would you buy it if the shop is about 50-100% more expensive?

That was my intended point


A-HA!!! Light bulb has been switched on (fairly dim one)

I get it now, but I would add that I would pay 20% more in a shop where I could play the guitar first as opposed to a virtual shop. When it comes to Rinkya, that's fine because it is very cheap, so you wont suffer all that much if something goes wrong (and it does from time to time).
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villager
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

depends what guitars you are selling, (or buying) i sell used guitars and i consider myself to be very bright

the ebay sellers seem quite happy to continue their business, so unless everybody selling used guitars is losing money and ''not very bright'' (which I doubt), then you are wrong... buying something cheaper with no security of return, no guarantee, and from a faceless seller on yahoo japan, via rinkya, is not the preferred choice for everybody, some people prefer to pay a higher price and know that they have the security of a trusted seller, and the opportunity to exchange the guitar if it does not suit them.

price is not the only factor involved
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JVsearch
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't saying the sellers were dim, I meant I was! Chingo, for example has plenty of stuff at good prices, but the higher priced listings tend to hang around for quite a while. It's always like this for a while when markets re-adjust, some people keep on operating like nothing has changed.

Price is not the only factor, you're right, and at the collector level that's fine to pay for all the other benefits of that type of transaction.

Buying middle of the range or low model axes at more than the new price of current higher models is not smart. That is for collectors mainly, players have better choices IMO. Heck, some of the prices have reached the level where you can buy an old LS-50, or a current LS-160 for the same or less money.

Some of the fun of MIJ guitars was that you could pick up something for not that much money and it would be pretty decent, and you can still do that if you persevere.

We're mainly talking about risking 30 to 50k yen on something for the use of players, most of whom have FA money.
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villager
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

in my experience there are not very many ''pure collecters'' most people who buy guitars play them, and I was actually referring to the post previous to yours

some players have more money than others and they are the ones who buy the higher spec models, when you are spending that kind of money its nice to have reassurance, many people are still buying new historics at 3000+ so even the highest priced MiJ are in my opinion under priced, there are a very limited amount of higher spec old MIJ available, and they are getting rarer and rarer..

I have a vast collection of guitars, but I play around 10 hours a week, and gig regularly, I class myself as a player of guitars, and also a collector, the 2 things are not separate..

it always amuses me that the ''players'' want to distance themselves from the ''collectors'', I mean, look at any great guitarist, they usually have an amazing collection of guitars, but are they collectors? or players? or both...
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JVsearch
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was trying to say that somebody buying a guitar simply to play need not bother with expensive vintage or rare guitars. The only reason to pay the premium prices to get rare and vintage guitars is because you want it for some other reasons not just for playing. Those reasons are more to do with the collectable aspects than anything, with rarity being the most valuable aspect IMO. So in that way the aspects of the guitar are indeed separate things, given that you could buy a newer guitar that would do everything the vintage one would do, and quite possibly, do it better.

If you have the disposable income then you can buy whatever you want and price really isn't a concern. I would put the well known great guitar players in this category, I mean they were given more guitars than they could possibly use, in addition to whatever they bought themselves. But if you're not in a position to have several to hundreds of thousand to drop on a guitar then you're probably out of the vintage and rare market, end of story. However, the thing is, you're not missing much by buying newer guitars if you're just a player! If you're that player who desires to own a vintage or rare guitar in the future then you need to earn a lot more dough.

Have you ever played a Fender Nocaster Relic? I'll only say I tried to get the guy to sell it to me there and then, because I don't want the prices getting jacked up!

$500k for a 59 Burst, everybody knows they are not worth anything like that amount in playability or tone. So what is it that makes up the rest of the price? Rarity would be the top attribute, and the rest is made up of marketing, hype, snake oil and the fact that now, only people who have a lot of money buy them (ie there is more $ available for the prices to expand out)!
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villager
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

leaving out the 500k bursts, i think theres a great choice for players of all levels between 500 and 3000 euros, it just depends what you can afford.. i would always spend as much as i can afford on a better instrument for playing, and the higher priced guitars are generally better guitars in my experience, (over 1500 vintage MIJ and counting)
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Havib
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Joined: 21 May 2010
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havib wrote:
Koubayashi wrote:
Everywhere there will be someone/some trying to capitalize and accumulate on peoples lack of knowledge.

The most powerful tool is people's "unawareness".
Especially if you manage to sweet talk them

A lot of people up here mail me with questions like "is this a reasonable price for this Greco". I normally tell them that if its a good guitar the price is not the prime worry but when taking into consideration that the Greco cost 250? in Japan and now suddenly 1000? you might want to try to get one elsewhere.
And I introduce them to the auction sites if they want to try elsewhere.

Trying to make money selling used things are pretty darn stupid 2010




so true! dont be fooled by bad dealers everyone!


good discussion this thread!
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

villager wrote:
leaving out the 500k bursts, i think theres a great choice for players of all levels between 500 and 3000 euros, it just depends what you can afford.. i would always spend as much as i can afford on a better instrument for playing, and the higher priced guitars are generally better guitars in my experience, (over 1500 vintage MIJ and counting)


We are on pair here.

The EGF1800 I am going to sell as soon as I can let go of it is one of the best Les pauls I ever played. No 1200 I have ever tried is even close. The damn laminate is choking the tone
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villager
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

habib which ''bad dealer '' have you been fooled by?

Koubayashi you should try a high end tokai like a pre 85 LS150 or 200, they are close to the best greco's, some people would prefer them I think as the necks are slightly slimmer than the greco's, personally I think the tone of the 1200's is pretty much the same as the 1800's, I pick them up to play equally the 1200's and the 1800's, laminate tops don't change the sound at all, but you don't play LP's much do you how many 1200's and 1800's do you have in storage now??

I do think you can still get a good guitar for a low price, just look at the greco mint collections or the plainer burnys, there are plenty of them still around, and they are good guitar, in the right hands they can sound great, but the higher end stuff is generally my preferance, as i have 2 wrong hands ..
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

villager wrote:
habib which ''bad dealer '' have you been fooled by?

Koubayashi you should try a high end tokai like a pre 85 LS150 or 200, they are close to the best greco's, some people would prefer them I think as the necks are slightly slimmer than the greco's, personally I think the tone of the 1200's is pretty much the same as the 1800's, I pick them up to play equally the 1200's and the 1800's, laminate tops don't change the sound at all, but you don't play LP's much do you how many 1200's and 1800's do you have in storage now??

I do think you can still get a good guitar for a low price, just look at the greco mint collections or the plainer burnys, there are plenty of them still around, and they are good guitar, in the right hands they can sound great, but the higher end stuff is generally my preferance, as i have 2 wrong hands ..


Two wrongs don't make a right
I don't like the Tokais cause of the necks actually. But they are great Lesters otherwise.

I had a Mint Coll EG600 plaintop that sang like a zillion birds but something in the tone and the sound was harder than the 1800. I would choose the 1800 over the 600 for that reason. But the 600 was easily on level with most 850's -1000's I have/had.

I used to play SG Special for a long time but recently changed to Stratocaster again. Shell pink ST80 Springy!!

At the moment I have 1 1200 and 1 1800 for sale.
I have recently sold two 1200's though.

I am still interested in high end JV (both Strat and Tele)
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villager
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mint collection necks are more like the tokais though they are noticably slimmer than the super real necks
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

villager wrote:
mint collection necks are more like the tokais though they are noticably slimmer than the super real necks


For ladys' hands
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Havib
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havib wrote:
Havib wrote:
Koubayashi wrote:
Everywhere there will be someone/some trying to capitalize and accumulate on peoples lack of knowledge.

The most powerful tool is people's "unawareness".
Especially if you manage to sweet talk them

A lot of people up here mail me with questions like "is this a reasonable price for this Greco". I normally tell them that if its a good guitar the price is not the prime worry but when taking into consideration that the Greco cost 250? in Japan and now suddenly 1000? you might want to try to get one elsewhere.
And I introduce them to the auction sites if they want to try elsewhere.

Trying to make money selling used things are pretty darn stupid 2010




so true! dont be fooled by bad dealers everyone!


good discussion this thread!

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