'81 LS120

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What I don't understand is if Tokai were so caught up in making exact replicas of the older Les Pauls, then why did they not at least include pickup covers and leave it up to the buyer if they wanted to remove them?
 
:wink:
Beanoburst3.jpg


Volker
 
settebello said:
:wink:
Beanoburst3.jpg


Volker

I never said people did not remove the covers, rather that Clapton's guitar in that photo would have come stock with covers. I was playng professionally back then, and the main reason people took the covers off was because they thought it looked cool. I even did it myself, but then I realized I much preferred the look and sound with the covers on. So all I am saying is that I think these Japanese makers should leave the choice up to the buyer. If you get the guitar with covers, you have the option then to have it either way you want. Whereas, if you get a guitar like the 1981 LS-80 I just bought, I have no choice because I cannot put covers on those stock pups. Instead, I either have to live with it as is, or replace the pups (which is what I am doing). Anyway, no question that LS-120 is a beautiful guitar otherwise :)
 
Yeah I like covers on as well, but I don't mind the looks of the uncovered pickups, I just think they sound better covered, maybe slightly smoother and fatter. However there would be some LPs that would benefit tone-wise from removing the covers.

Nice LS, but it is definitely a collectors piece - it looks untouched!
 
Tim Z said:
What I don't understand is if Tokai were so caught up in making exact replicas of the older Les Pauls, then why did they not at least include pickup covers and leave it up to the buyer if they wanted to remove them?

In a word - 70s! When Tokai started doing these LPs they clearly went with some of the 70s features of the range of Gibby LPs at that time. This is why there are medium tenons, less headstock angle on some models, and clownbursts. Also, I don't think Dimarzios had covers, certainly the ones I bought back in the early 80s (PAF and Super Distortion Humbuckers) didn't seem to be available with covers (could be different in an OEM deal though).
 
I think you are missing my point though. It doesn't matter what decade they were building the guitars in. If they were seriously trying to make an exact replica of a 59 Les Paul, a 59 Les Paul came with covers on the pups; as did all Les Pauls of that era. I understand the attraction for some not having covers on, but why not leave it up to the individual to make that choice. Besides, 90% of the fun of it back then was taking the covers off yourself and seeing what was under there.

Anyway, I am no Les Paul expert by any means, but I did not think that Gibson put out any Les Paul models without covers. Did they actually do that with some 70's models?
 
Ok, I'll put it another way:
It's clear that Tokai weren't trying to make a replica of the 50's Gibson LP, and ended up making LPs that had some features from the Gibson 1968 LP, 70s LPs and others.

Tokai did do what they wanted to though - made a good LP that was better than what was on offer at the time in the late 70s.

No, it doesn't matter which decade they started building them in, but why do some of the early Reborns and Love Rocks have 70s features? All of them have the 1968 tenon.
 
Tim Z said:
I think you are missing my point though. It doesn't matter what decade they were building the guitars in. If they were seriously trying to make an exact replica of a 59 Les Paul, a 59 Les Paul came with covers on the pups; as did all Les Pauls of that era. I understand the attraction for some not having covers on, but why not leave it up to the individual to make that choice. Besides, 90% of the fun of it back then was taking the covers off yourself and seeing what was under there.

Anyway, I am no Les Paul expert by any means, but I did not think that Gibson put out any Les Paul models without covers. Did they actually do that with some 70's models?
They did, It was the Les Paul; KM.
 
@jvsearch: if you look at Tokai catalogs they actually did intend to make 50s guitars; a LS50, 60 & 80 should be '58 models, some 100's a special '57 model and 120, 150 & 200 a '59 model.

this is a real nice 120 though! interestingly enough this guitar was bought from a german guitarshop in 1982, so wasn't exposed to the japanese climat. Not original pups though; the sellers states there are late 90s Rio Grande pups in it.
 
Maybe, but he was also an idiotic racist twat with less taste than stewed cauliflower, so if anything that suggests flame tops are the way to go.
 
jacco said:
@jvsearch: if you look at Tokai catalogs they actually did intend to make 50s guitars; a LS50, 60 & 80 should be '58 models, some 100's a special '57 model and 120, 150 & 200 a '59 model.

I said "replica" it's clear that they weren't trying to make replicas of 50s LPs, or if they were, they got the looks right, but got some major details of the construction wrong. Why does the LS-50/60 have the headstock angle from the Norlin LPs? Why do they all have medium tenons like the ones seen on the first wave of LP reissues from Gibson in 1968? And why do many of them have veneer tops? The neck profiles are different as well (although if you listen to the guys on the Les Paul Forum, even Gibson haven't got that right on the Historics until recently!). There's also the woods used.

It doesn't make sense unless that's what they had to copy, and they thought that was what was correct for the LP from the 50s. If they did it on purpose then they weren't trying to make replicas.

There's just no way you can have a LP burst replica with a veneer top, no way at all.

But, it doesn't matter a bit - they are good in their own right!
 
BlueThird said:
Maybe, but he was also an idiotic racist twat with less taste than stewed cauliflower...

Really?! I admit he's now a bit boring, but a racist? I've seen him playing with all manner of people who weren't white. Where's this all coming from?
 
From his own mouth. Here's part of his entry on Wikiquote:

Do we have any foreigners in the audience tonight? If so, please put up your hands. Wogs I mean, I'm looking at you. Where are you? I'm sorry but some f*cking wog... Arab grabbed my wife's bum, you know? Surely got to be said, yeah this is what all the f*cking foreigners and wogs over here are like, just disgusting, that's just the truth, yeah. So where are you? Well wherever you all are, I think you should all just leave. Not just leave the hall, leave our country. You f*cking (indecipherable). I don't want you here, in the room or in my country. Listen to me, man! I think we should vote for Enoch Powell. Enoch's our man. I think Enoch's right, I think we should send them all back. Stop Britain from becoming a black colony. Get the foreigners out. Get the wogs out. Get the coons out. Keep Britain white. I used to be into dope, now I'm into racism. It's much heavier, man. F*cking wogs, man. F*cking Saudis taking over London. ******* wogs. Britain is becoming overcrowded and Enoch will stop it and send them all back. The black wogs and coons and Arabs and f*cking Jamaicans and f*cking (indecipherable) don't belong here, we don't want them here. This is England, this is a white country, we don't want any black wogs and coons living here. We need to make clear to them they are not welcome. England is for white people, man. We are a white country. I don't want f*cking wogs living next to me with their standards. This is Great Britain, a white country, what is happening to us, for f*ck's sake? We need to vote for Enoch Powell, he's a great man, speaking truth. Vote for Enoch, he's our man, he's on our side, he'll look after us. I want all of you here to vote for Enoch, support him, he's on our side. Enoch for Prime Minister! Throw the wogs out! Keep Britain white!

That's a composite quote, put together from reports and reviews of a concert in Birmingham (UK) in 1976. Sources were the New Musical Express, Melody Maker, The Guardian and The Times. It played a large part in the formation of Rock Against Racism.

Clapton has been offered the chance to retract his comments, or apologise, on numerous occasions. To the best of my knowledge, he hasn't done so. He has, however, essentially tried to claim that he was speaking on behalf of migrants to the UK (his argument apparently being that the were being fed false promises, and wouldn't have jobs or housing when they arrived) and also that "There's no way I could be a racist. It would make no sense." Hey ??some of his best friends are black!
 

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