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might have a fake, how do i tell?
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rabies
Plucker


Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Posts: 4
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:47 pm    Post subject: might have a fake, how do i tell? Reply with quote

hey guys, i'm new to tokai's and i'm new to this forum. i did some searching but i couldn't quite seem to find what i was looking for, so lets see if you guys can help me out..

so, tonight i made a trade and i ended up with a tokai "goldstar sound" strat knockoff. the guy figures its from the early 80's, but who knows really. this is what i do know:
1. it doesn't have a serial number on the headstock
2. the neck-plate is stamped 2554
3. i took the pickguard off and the pickups all have "J M C" written on the backs of them, and then a capital "E" stamped with ink
4. all the routed areas are lined with foil tape (can't remember the actual name of this stuff) but i peeled some back and the color code is "6=8 MB Z"
i believe the color of the paint is lake placid blue.
5. i took the neck off and there is nothing written in the neck pocket, but there is a "6=8" on the butt of the neck.

i'll try and get some pictures soon, but can any of you give me ANY information on this guitar? if its fake or not, maybe the year it was made, and possibly how much its worth? its in pretty good shape, a few scratches on the body finish but thats about it

thanks guys
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JVsearch
Guitar God


Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 2017
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like the real deal so far!

People will want to wait for the pics to be sure.
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:48 am    Post subject: Re: might have a fake, how do i tell? Reply with quote

rabies wrote:
i ended up with a tokai "goldstar sound" strat knockoff.


Are you referring to a Goldstar as a "Strat knockoff"?

If you are, may I suggest that you don't?



Mike
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blake375
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Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Posts: 109
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Mike. The Goldstar Sound is clearly supposed to resemble a Fender Telecaster.
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JohnA
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
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Location: Leicester UK

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: might have a fake, how do i tell? Reply with quote

stratman323 wrote:
rabies wrote:
i ended up with a tokai "goldstar sound" strat knockoff.


Are you referring to a Goldstar as a "Strat knockoff"?

If you are, may I suggest that you don't?



Mike


Well is choice of words leaves a little to be desired, but you can't really argue the point it's a 'Strat knockoff"
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: might have a fake, how do i tell? Reply with quote

JohnA wrote:
Well is choice of words leaves a little to be desired, but you can't really argue the point it's a 'Strat knockoff"


Can't I?

You just watch me!
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: might have a fake, how do i tell? Reply with quote

stratman323 wrote:
JohnA wrote:
Well is choice of words leaves a little to be desired, but you can't really argue the point it's a 'Strat knockoff"


Can't I?

You just watch me!


Go on then, this'll be interesting

A Goldstar IS a Strat knockoff because:

It is a copy of a Fender Strat, and makes no pretence to be anything else. The Spriny even had "'THIS IS THE EXACT REPLICA OF THE GOOD OLD STRAT" on the headstock
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you know perfectly well John, "knockoff" is a disrespectul term, which, amongst other meanings, can also refer to something that has been stolen. A Goldstar is an excellent vintage type Strat, easily as good as the stuff produced by Fender Japan, to make a direct comparison.

Since it was Tokai that showed Fender the lines on which they should run their business, Fender should be very grateful to Tokai.

Your new job doesn't seem to be keping you very busy!

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JohnA
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stratman323 wrote:
As you know perfectly well John, "knockoff" is a disrespectul term, which, amongst other meanings, can also refer to something that has been stolen. A Goldstar is an excellent vintage type Strat, easily as good as the stuff produced by Fender Japan, to make a direct comparison.

Since it was Tokai that showed Fender the lines on which they should run their business, Fender should be very grateful to Tokai.

Your new job doesn't seem to be keping you very busy!



It's lunch-time, and I can't pass up a good argument

'knockoff' indicating something that was stolen, surely Tokai stole the design from our good friend Leo Fender?

The current Chinese knockoffs are getting a lot of bad press, but they are only doing what the Japanese did 40 years ago. Also, a lot of the current Chinese guitars are way better than the stuff that came out of Japan in the early '70's, give them 10 years and I'll put money on the fact that you'll be able to buy a chinese knockoff that's as good as a Goldstar.
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnA wrote:
'knockoff' indicating something that was stolen, surely Tokai stole the design from our good friend Leo Fender?


That's the simplistic argument - I expected better from you.

As Fender had largely abandoned and forgotten about what made pre 65 Strats & Teles so good by 1978, Tokai came along & reminded them by producing a Strat that was better than anything Fender currently did.

The whole vintage RI market (which includes most of what the Custom Shop now produce), which is so profitable for Fender today, is a concept invented by the Japanese, & perfected by Tokai in the Springy. All Fender US had to do was copy what Tokai were doing, & that's exactly what they did.

So who ripped off whom?
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pehaps Tokai should sue Fender for stealing their idea, we would start to see 'lawsuit' Fenders!
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blake375
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Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The whole vintage RI market (which includes most of what the Custom Shop now produce), which is so profitable for Fender today, is a concept invented by the Japanese, & perfected by Tokai in the Springy. All Fender US had to do was copy what Tokai were doing, & that's exactly what they did.

So who ripped off whom?


Interesting way to look at things, and I can't really disagree. But do we know who started doing this first? Can the first perfect copy of a vintage strat be regarded as stand-alone idea or was it the product of years of imperfect copies of the generic strat design?

Another thing to consider is that not all Japanese copies were of vintage designs. A few weeks ago we saw Tokai's cosmetically accurate copy of the early 80s Fender 'The Strat' - a more-or-less contemporaneous design - is this a knock-off? I'd say probably yes...
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another fantastic thread hi-jack sorry rabies.

From the info you posted it looks like your knockoff is genuine
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I would avoid the term "knock off" because of it's cheap & nasty connotations. Hardly fitting for a Goldie.

Let's remember that Fender talked to several Japanese manufacturers to decide which one to choose to make the Fender Japan range. If Tokai had won that contract in 1982 (instead of 1997), Goldstars would be Fender Japan re-issues - but they would be virtually identical to the guitars we know.

Maybe it's just as well (for us) that Tokai didn't win the contract, or we wouldn't have Goldstars. I wonder if any of the other Japanese manufacturers would have produced something similar to the Goldstar if Tokai had been tied into a contract with Fender?
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JohnA
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Location: Leicester UK

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fernandes Revivals are pretty much like for like as far as quality is concerned and were being produced at the same time, If tokai had won the contract then Fujigen, I'm sure, would have continued to produce the Greco Strats, which again are comparable in quality.
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