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might have a fake, how do i tell?
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blake375 wrote:
Another thing to consider is that not all Japanese copies were of vintage designs. A few weeks ago we saw Tokai's cosmetically accurate copy of the early 80s Fender 'The Strat' - a more-or-less contemporaneous design - is this a knock-off? I'd say probably yes...


True about The Strat, but maybe the Silver Star is a better example? There's a better case for calling them a rip-off of the (then) current Fender product. But they made them better! The bodies were often lighter, & the tilt neck actually worked. So what do you call a knock-off that's better than what it's knocking off?

How about - an improvement?
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blake375
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a bit hazy on Silverstars, and 70s Fender strats, hence choice of example.

Personally I'd take a Springy over a Fender of the same age any day, and knock-off wouldn't be my first choice of words for describing a Springy, but at the end of the day it is a copy, no question. Aside from the switch, the only way a Springy is actually an improvement on a Fender is the workmanship - you can't say the design itself is an improvement really.
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blake375 wrote:
Aside from the switch, the only way a Springy is actually an improvement on a Fender is the workmanship - you can't say the design itself is an improvement really.


Actually I can think of one example of an improvement - Tokai used ash (sen) on many of their see through finished models (such as Sunburst) when Fender would have used alder. Ash looks nicer, & many of us prefer the extra twang it gives to the sound.

You can't buy a "genuine" 60s RI Strat with an ash body.
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blake375
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough. I think some early Fenders were Ash but you certainly wouldn't find one in Sen!

"Knock-offs", "replicas" or "improvements", I'm just glad they were built and that they don't cost the earth.

Love the "knock-off" spag logo too!
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blake375 wrote:
Fair enough. I think some early Fenders were Ash but you certainly wouldn't find one in Sen!


Ash was only used till about 1956 for the Sunburst Strats, after that they were alder, only the see-through blonde Strats were ash, which I always thought was a strange decision. But alder was cheaper & easier to finish, so that's what they used.
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JVsearch
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike, you're delusional, Tokai copied the Fender Strat. End of.
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVsearch wrote:
Mike, you're delusional, Tokai copied the Fender Strat. End of.


Ah, but the search for the perfect Strat never ends..... then again, maybe it does!

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rabies
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

haha oh wow, look what i started! i do apologize for referring to it as a "knock-off", i realize now that thats not the best term for it. you guys all know what i'm talking about though haha.
well, i borrowed a camera from work, but it turns out the batteries are dead, so the pictures will have to wait until tonight.

so, does anyone know about how much this is worth? after a quick ebay search i only found a couple, between around $400-$600, that sound right?
also, how do i figure out what year it was made?
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry, we often go off on a tangent here. Anyway we're just killing time till you show us the pics. We really can't tell you much more till we see them, little details sometimes help to pinpoint what something is. From what you've said so far, it sounds fine, but the pics will tell the full story.

Also please add your location to your profile like this.

<

Where you are will affect the answers to your questions, particularly date & value.

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mirrorboy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the correct term for the Goldstar is "hommage guitar", i.e. they are a tribute to Leo Fender. Tokai position their own brand name for all to see, therefore they aren't even copies in my eyes.
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rabies
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok guys, here ya go!
note: the pictures aren't the best, i had to borrow a camera and i'm not good with settings
oh, and i forgot to take a pic of the butt of the neck, it has "6=8" written just like how it is inside the body

tokai gold star sound:

headstock:

back of headstock:

neck plate:

body:

guts:

color code: (its upside down, but it reads 6=8 MB Z, or mayb the "B" is actually an "8"..stupid photobucket, oh and the Z is where the big white flash is)

bridge: (saddles read "FINAL PROSPEC")

in the case:

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Last edited by rabies on Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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rabies
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so, what do you guys figure? real? what year? how much is it worth?

oh, and i'm from Canada if that helps any
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mirrorboy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries there rab, I'm sure that is a genuine Tokai. Looks to me like a mid-eighties model, I would say at least a TST-60 because it is a 1954 replica. Looks to be all original apart from the changed tuners and the addition of tinfoil to the pickguard.

I have never seen those 'jmc' inscriptions on the pickups before. It's possible that they may have been rewound at some time. If you can get hold of an electrical multimeter then you could measure the DC resistance of the pickups. They should read less than 6.0kOhms.
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japaxes
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:04 am    Post subject: colour code Reply with quote

colour code is M/B (tokai) metalic blue there take on (fenders_ lake placid blue
looks ok to me ,as mirrorboy pointed out non standard tunners ,but a nice goldstar
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:40 am    Post subject: Re: colour code Reply with quote

japaxes wrote:
colour code is M/B (tokai) metalic blue there take on (fenders_ lake placid blue
looks ok to me ,as mirrorboy pointed out non standard tunners ,but a nice goldstar


What he said I reckon it's an ST-60, all good!
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