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Nice one!

This is good information, and confirms what I suspected - that most of the higher Japanese clones have a poly sealer coat then a nitro finish, like Fender USA. I have no problem with this, except where people are being sold something as having a nitro finish when it is only the top coat.
 
I bought a NOS vintage series telecaster, the sticker on the scratchplate said "All Lacquer Finish"
 
great post, but I'm confused with that "begining" and "beginning" logo. I have two BST, tought one was before 2000 and one after (according to serials, it's quite a big difference btw both). But they bot have "begining" in logo. Also I don't really understand that string retainer stuff - can someone explain this please?
thank you
 
Diodibuh said:
great post, but I'm confused with that "begining" and "beginning" logo. I have two BST, tought one was before 2000 and one after (according to serials, it's quite a big difference btw both). But they bot have "begining" in logo. Also I don't really understand that string retainer stuff - can someone explain this please?
thank you

Thanks!
According to the information received from Deviser, If both your guitars have 'begining' then they would be the early years model vintage series. What sort of string retainer on the headstock is yours..wing or round?

As for Serial numbers, Deviser replied to my question about it, and they said they did not keep records of what serial numbers were allocated to which year, so, it is not possible to ID which year from the serial number.

Mick
 
JohnA said:
I bought a NOS vintage series telecaster, the sticker on the scratchplate said "All Lacquer Finish"

This may very well mean that your Tele was a total lacquer finish!
My point is that when it just says lacquer finish, this would mean a lacquer top coat only. For example, the Seymour Duncan clones (now discontinued) specified a lacquer top coat over poly for all their guitars except for the top model (DS-250/280 depending on year) which stated "all lacquer" finish like your sticker. :)

I have never seen a sticker like that either, but then I've never bought a brand new Vintage Series Bacchus guitar! My Duke had "Lacquer Finish" on the sticker like those mentioned by greco_burst.

My belief is that most would have been lacquer over poly as per greco's info, but it's not clear what the story is for the transition and later year models, as the finish is only mentioned in regard to the early years?
 
JVsearch said:
For example, the Seymour Duncan clones (now discontinued) specified a lacquer top coat over poly for all their guitars except for the top model (DS-250/280 depending on year) which stated "all lacquer" finish like your sticker. :)

Not quite true. The Traditional series (DS-100) says "lacquer finish top", the Vintage Standard (DS-200) series says "all lacquer" and the Vintage Pro series (DS-250/80) says "unsealed all lacquer". So, I'm guessing that the Traditional have a poly undercoat, Vintage Standard sealed with Fullerplast or similar (like the old Fenders) then nitro over that and the Vintage Pro unsealed nitro.
 
Been looking for a pic of the sticker, I was sure I took one, but afraid I can't find it :( I seemed to remember it saying 'all lacquer finish' but I could be wrong!
 
youami said:
JVsearch said:
For example, the Seymour Duncan clones (now discontinued) specified a lacquer top coat over poly for all their guitars except for the top model (DS-250/280 depending on year) which stated "all lacquer" finish like your sticker. :)

Not quite true. The Traditional series (DS-100) says "lacquer finish top", the Vintage Standard (DS-200) series says "all lacquer" and the Vintage Pro series (DS-250/80) says "unsealed all lacquer". So, I'm guessing that the Traditional have a poly undercoat, Vintage Standard sealed with Fullerplast or similar (like the old Fenders) then nitro over that and the Vintage Pro unsealed nitro.

Fullerplast is poly, so what's the diff? :lol:

But the point is that you have to go up to the 250K yen range to get a total lacquer finish?
 
Once again, displaying my ignorance. :oops:

So, if Fullerplast is poly, then the old Fenders were nitro top-coats only too? So who cares if it's only a nitro top-coat on Bacchi, Duncans etc? It's the same as Fender used to do things.

Also, why would ESP make the distinction between "Lacquer Topcoat", "All Lacquer" and "Unsealed Lacquer"? Are the first two options the same?

I'm confused. :-?
 
youami said:
Once again, displaying my ignorance. :oops:

So, if Fullerplast is poly, then the old Fenders were nitro top-coats only too? So who cares if it's only a nitro top-coat on Bacchi, Duncans etc? It's the same as Fender used to do things.

Also, why would ESP make the distinction between "Lacquer Topcoat", "All Lacquer" and "Unsealed Lacquer"? Are the first two options the same?

I'm confused. :-?

So am I!

It occurred to me that "Unsealed Lacquer" might mean there was no base or sealer coat used at all, which means they must have sanded that body down so fine that a few colour and clear coats was enough to get a good finish?

Fender started using Fullerplast in 1963, and the stuff that was used on the early guitars is even more of a hazy mess of opinion and personal agendas, with some saying it was another poly product and some saying it was nitro.

Amongst the hyperbole there is a bit of info here:
http://www.caraguitars.com/fullerplast.asp

What is obvious from this is that the use of a poly sealer/base coat allowed the colour and clear coats to be much thinner because they didn't soak into the wood, and I would have thought this was a good thing? People seem to think that the thinner the finish the better, irrespective of what type of finish it is - seems pretty reasonable to me.
 
Oh dear, back to this old story again! Fullerplast is not poly! Has anyone who is claiming that ever tried an old Fender? Totally different feel, & the wear pattern is totally different. Modern Custom Shop vintage copies are all nitro, early 80s USRIs are all nitro, later ones had a poly sealant coat. Try both & the difference is very apparent.

The newer USRIs have a similar feel to my ST80 - nitro top coat over poly. My ES130 & TE120 don't even feel like nitro at all, even though they're supposed to be.

With regard to the dating information at the top of the page, I find that hard to believe as it contradicts everything we have previously been told about Bacchi. My BST-64V has a serial number beginning 01, which I was told made it a 2001 model, but it says "begining" on the headstock. I remain to be convinced that anything in this post is true.

Mike
 
stratman323 said:
With regard to the dating information at the top of the page, I find that hard to believe as it contradicts everything we have previously been told about Bacchi. My BST-64V has a serial number beginning 01, which I was told made it a 2001 model, but it says "begining" on the headstock. I remain to be convinced that anything in this post is true.

Mike

Well, you have been misinformed, BST64V were dropped before 2000, the BST62 started in around 2000, as for serial numbers who the heck told you a 01xxx serial was for 2001?

As i stated, I have communicated with Deviser, and asked questions about their products, and received the reply that was kindly translated.
 
Well, previous information on these pages came mainly from MIJVintage, who I regard as quite a reliable source of information on Bacchi. Now you're turning all that he said on it's head. For example, isn't it reasonable to assume that a Strat with a serial number beginning 01 is from 2001?

Unfortunately Mick, you have spread misinformation on here before (just "for a laugh" regarding SS60s, remember?), so I am not inclined to believe you when you tell me that everything we have previously been told is wrong. Where did all the previous "wrong" information come from? And why should we believe you rather than the other, earlier sources?
 
stratman323 said:
Oh dear, back to this old story again! Fullerplast is not poly! Has anyone who is claiming that ever tried an old Fender? Totally different feel, & the wear pattern is totally different. Modern Custom Shop vintage copies are all nitro, early 80s USRIs are all nitro, later ones had a poly sealant coat. Try both & the difference is very apparent.

Fullerplast was still in the plastics family, as is every single guitar finish ever used, technically, including the blessed nitro.

Ok, forget Fullerplast because it wasn't used all that much and by 1968 all Fender sealer coats were poly, until later they started to do some other finishes on selected models (reissues and Custom Shop). There really isn't anything wrong with poly, I just don't like the idea of people being duped into thinking they're getting a full nitro finish, and there really are very few that are completely nitro finished. Personally I doubt that Gibson uses a traditional nitro finish on the Historics anymore.

Maybe some of your guitars feel different because they were second hand? I had a 63 Fender and the finish was completely worn off on the neck so I've no idea what it would have felt like with finish on it. My old 62 Casino still has finish on the neck, but I'm not sure it's the original finish, but it feels great - never sticky. My Bacchus Duke, brand new with a lacquer top coat, did occasionally feel sticky but seems to be fine now. The 2007 Momose Strat with lacquer top coat is nice and slick, never sticky but the neck finish is very slightly satin I think - it works, but for all I know the previous owner gently ran a bit of wet and dry over the neck?
 
One other point on the Fullerplast/poly sealant discussion is that Fullerplast was used on bodies - as far as I know it was never used on necks. I personally couldn't give a **** what they use to seal the body with, it's the finish on the back of the neck that I feel whenever I play the guitar. As long as that's nitro, everything is cool. The complete opposite of Fender's daft new Road Worn series, where they finish the body with nitro but the neck with poly! Crazy. :roll:

Having said that, I've got so used to the relatively thin poly finish on my Goldstars that the lack of nitro doesn't bother me as much as it used to.

Nitro does feel better when it's worn, true enough, but even on a 2004 Tele, it still feels different.
 
stratman323 said:
Well, previous information on these pages came mainly from MIJVintage, who I regard as quite a reliable source of information on Bacchi. Now you're turning all that he said on it's head. For example, isn't it reasonable to assume that a Strat with a serial number beginning 01 is from 2001?

Unfortunately Mick, you have spread misinformation on here before (just "for a laugh" regarding SS60s, remember?), so I am not inclined to believe you when you tell me that everything we have previously been told is wrong. Where did all the previous "wrong" information come from? And why should we believe you rather than the other, earlier sources?

I had contacted Deviser, with the help of 3 people who speak/write Japanese/English.
As for serial numbers, that they do not reflect the year the guitar was made.
As for your comments about who to believe, well, you should contact Deviser yourself about serial numbers etc. and whatever else.
 
greco_burst said:
Diodibuh said:
great post, but I'm confused with that "begining" and "beginning" logo. I have two BST, tought one was before 2000 and one after (according to serials, it's quite a big difference btw both). But they bot have "begining" in logo. Also I don't really understand that string retainer stuff - can someone explain this please?
thank you

Thanks!
According to the information received from Deviser, If both your guitars have 'begining' then they would be the early years model vintage series. What sort of string retainer on the headstock is yours..wing or round?

As for Serial numbers, Deviser replied to my question about it, and they said they did not keep records of what serial numbers were allocated to which year, so, it is not possible to ID which year from the serial number.

Mick

here are pictures and serial numbers of my two bacchus
BST54V, serial: 011138
bst54v.jpg


and BST62, serial: 126384
bst62.jpg


different string retainer, big difference btw serial numbers, and both with "begining". Do you think they're both pre 2000?
 
The reason the string retainer is different on the first one is because it's a copy of a '54 Strat - the early Strats had the round string tree.
 
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