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Reborn Old Custom

 
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willivory
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a black Reborn Old with "50" inscribed by the last fret. Would the correct model # be LC-50? This is not listed in the homepage. I see a LC-60. This guitar has a chunky neck, black pickguard, and a cream toggle tip (not amber). Also, gold volume/tone knobs. Was wondering if this is a '57 or '58 replica. Great sounding guitar. Resonant and bright when played clean, but breaks up easily with a Tube Screamer. Is this guitar all mahogany, or would it have a maple top? Type of pickups (they're double cream)? Any info I can get would be appreciated. Thanks.

Will
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james
Guitar God


Joined: 29 Jan 2002
Posts: 294
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Will

Is it definitly an LP Custom replica? Has it got block fretboard inlays rather than trapezoid, binding on the headstock and back body edge, gold hardware, etc? I was just wondering if it could be a black standard (i.e. an LS50) that has a changed pickguard, as I haven't heard of an LP Custom replica from the Reborn era. Gold knobs would be wrong for an LP Custom too, as would the cream toggle, although of course they could have been changed.
If it is an LP Custom replica then it could just be that they were cheaper then (remember, the 50 refers to the price in thousands of Yen) and went up to 60 later.
If its an LS model then the top should be maple, if an LC then mahogany.
Double cream pickups sounds like DiMarzio, but may not be original - pull em out and check.

James
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willivory
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, you're correct. It makes sense that its a Les Paul Standard since, other than the black finish, it has none of the characteristcs of a Custom. The maple top would explain its brightness. I just don't recall seeing a picture of a Gibson '58 Standard that looks exactly like this. On the other hand, the black Gibson '58 Standard is a rarity in itself, so it could be I've just never seen one, period. As to whether or not parts have been changed I can't say. I paid a lot for it but its still less expensive than a Gibson, plays nicely, and sounds great. Can't ask for more than that. Thanks for your input.

Will
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Peter Mac
Guitar God


Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 1060
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi willivory,
Your guitar sounds like the LS-50, which was available in the solid black finish. The top is probably 3-piece solid PLAIN maple (not flame) as the colour finish would not require a fancier piece.
Tokai always offered the black finish for their "50" series guitars, as well as gold and sunburst in later years.
The guitar should have exposed pickups too.
Overall it was not a proper '59 copy - just a variation of the Tokai theme
Enjoy!

Peter
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james
Guitar God


Joined: 29 Jan 2002
Posts: 294
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mystery solved then Will. It seems that the only changed parts are the pickguard (no big deal there) and maybe the pickups (again, doesn't really detract from the guitar). More importantly though is that, being a Reborn Old, its one of the rarest Tokai LPs and being factory black probably makes it even more so, as I've certainly seen a few sunbursts on eBay but only one (presumably yours) black one. A good score I'd say.

James
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willivory
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, James. Funny thing about the pickguard. The metal piece that holds the guard to the body of the guitar is gold-colored and pitted, while the bridge and stopbar are chrome-plated. So that's inconsistent. It is white and black around the edges as a Gibson Custom would look, but doesn't appear to be made by Gibson. More importantly, it fits the space between and around the pickups perfectly without a trace of a gap, as if it were custom cut for the instrument. Probably a mystery that will never be solved. In any event, it matters little to me as the guitar is great, and light at that. I don't believe it breaks 8 pounds!

Will
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Peter Mac
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Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 1060
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi james,
Black was a standard colour for the LS-50. The giveaway is the chrome hardware, as all Custom LP's use gold,as well as 7-layer binding.
It was not however a colour offered on Gibson LP Std until around 1976. In 1958-60, the only black Les Paul was the Custom. The Standard was available in cherry-sunburst and later a tobacco sunburst and cherry - but no black.

Peter
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willivory
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About the pickups, James. They're exposed double creme Gotoh "Patent Applied For" (spelled out on base). The base of the pickup appears to be gold plated. No evidence solder joints have been tampered with so I would have to say they're original. Any comments? Are they consistent with a 1980 Reborn Old? They are very resonant and clean but break up nicely with a Tube Screamer.

Will
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james
Guitar God


Joined: 29 Jan 2002
Posts: 294
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2002 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pickguard fitting being gold is consistant with it being from an LP Custom (Gibson or copy) as we thought.
As to the pickups, as Peter said, LS50s had open coil units and I believe Tokai did use Gotoh hardware. Why I suggested Dimarzio is because I've heard they have the patent on double cream pickups (although I don't know how recent that is and not that Tokai was any great respecter of patents anyway!). Also most of the catlogs show LS50s with zebra coils. However, I've seen pictures of Reborn era guitars with double cream so I reckon you're right and they're original.
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