Quality of Bacchus compared to Navigator, OBG, etc?

Discussion area for Bacchus/Momose/Deviser guitars.
JimAdams
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Quality of Bacchus compared to Navigator, OBG, etc?

Post by JimAdams » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:07 am

Hi guys:
I'm hoping to get a MIJ Les Paul style guitar with the following specs:
- older wood, perhaps a guitar at least 15 years old?
- 1 piece back
- solid top (no laminate or photo flame)
- long tenon
- a non-thin neck. The neck on my Ibanez is way too thin. I like the neck on my Gibson 57 reissue
- thin nitro

I realize everything is a matter of opinion...but...what brands/models would be the TOP of the line that I should look for? I'm planning on selling my Gibson, so I can probably spend up to $3000. Also any rough ideas on what the recommended brands/models would cost?

Basically, I'm looking for a guitar that resonates well, sustains well, plays very comfortably. Good pickups would be a plus, but not mandatory, since they are an easy swap, and I'm probably do some tinkering anyway like putting on a Tonepros bridge, etc.

Diodibuh
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Post by Diodibuh » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:34 am

custom or standard?

soundcreation
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Post by soundcreation » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:58 pm

For three grand you'll do well I think.

This is kind of general but in my opinion I would rank them Navigator Bacchus then Orville by Gibson. But then I depends on what model. There are cheap bacchus; bacchus about as good as ObG; and bacchus better. Navigator would be above both aside from some of the rare custom bacchus.

Check out ishibashi right now. There are a few navigator LP's that look very nice.

youami
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Post by youami » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:24 pm

Navigators are top of the line. Here's a bargain for you, bit scratched up on the back, but so what:

http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/u_box/ubox.c ... &tid=list3

Here's the specs on that guitar:

http://www.espguitars.co.jp/navigator/nlp480ltd.html

Note the Honduras Mahogany body and neck, Honduras Rosewood fingerboard, Duncan Seth Lovers. All for about $US1800.

They've also got an unmolested Custom:

http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/u_box/ubox.c ... &tid=list3

youami
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Post by youami » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:35 pm

Just noticed the bit about wanting an older guitar. In that case, I would take a good look around Villager's website:

http://www.japanguitars.co.uk

leadguitar_323
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Post by leadguitar_323 » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:20 pm

To answer the original question, Bacchus are just as good or maybe at times even better that the other 2 in question, if not better then easily just as good.

Mick
so many guitars....so little money...

youami
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Post by youami » Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:06 am

Except Bacchus rarely (if ever?) came with the expensive Honduran/Brazillian woods. So their quality is up there, but their specs aren't. Momose (also made by Deviser), on the other hand, did:

http://translate.google.co.nz/translate ... n&ie=UTF-8

15+ year old Bacchus don't exist though, do they? When did they start making Les Paul copies?

JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:54 am

youami wrote:Except Bacchus rarely (if ever?) came with the expensive Honduran/Brazillian woods. So their quality is up there, but their specs aren't. Momose (also made by Deviser), on the other hand, did:
There are Honduran Dukes, and also some with Braz boards, but not that many. Not that this is much use I guess, but there could be the odd Vintage Series out there with Honduran, as to how you'd tell... ??? It's part of the positioning of Momose over Bacchus to use Honduran I would think, so my advice would be to forget about finding a Bacchus Vintage Series LP with Honduran! Needle in the haystack quest. :)
youami wrote:15+ year old Bacchus don't exist though, do they? When did they start making Les Paul copies?
I think they started around 1994, so right on the 15 year mark for the earliest ones. How anyone would be able to be sure about the manufacturing date on one of these will be hard. Hisashi is pretty good on them and even he only gives a rough year estimate such as "early 2000's" or something like that. I guess it would mean an email to Deviser every time you had a potential purchase, and hopefully they could ID it from the serial number (and you'd need a Japanese person to do the intermediary role or you'd be waiting months for replies :D ).

Finally - given the variability of all woods, a mediocre piece of Honduran compared to a good piece of some other mahogany? Probably not worth going for Honduran, but with the higher priced guitars I am guessing (hopefully) that they do some hands on wood selection to choose the best pieces tone wise, but I could be wrong.
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

leadguitar_323
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Post by leadguitar_323 » Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:06 am

Except Bacchus rarely (if ever?) came with the expensive Honduran/Brazillian woods. So their quality is up there, but their specs aren't. Momose (also made by Deviser), on the other hand, did:
That is incorrect, Bacchus have been making Honduran mahogany guitars for at least 3 years that i know of and it is also an option on their LP's, probably for day 1. Anyway its all the same company Deviser makes them all.
15+ year old Bacchus don't exist though, do they? When did they start making Les Paul copies?
My BLS-95 is from 1995, so yes they were made 15 years ago.
[/quote](and you'd need a Japanese person to do the intermediary role or you'd be waiting months for replies ).
Funny i have already said this before and was flamed.... :wink: It is true though, unless you actually know someone who works there....

Mick
so many guitars....so little money...

leadguitar_323
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Post by leadguitar_323 » Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:11 am

Finally - given the variability of all woods, a mediocre piece of Honduran compared to a good piece of some other mahogany? Probably not worth going for Honduran, but with the higher priced guitars I am guessing (hopefully) that they do some hands on wood selection to choose the best pieces tone wise, but I could be wrong.
Spot on mate, wood is wood at the end of the day and there is crappy Honduras mahogany as well, the same as any other timber. It is more expensive simply because it is rarer.

Mick
so many guitars....so little money...

youami
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Post by youami » Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:38 am

leadguitar_323 wrote:
Except Bacchus rarely (if ever?) came with the expensive Honduran/Brazillian woods. So their quality is up there, but their specs aren't. Momose (also made by Deviser), on the other hand, did:
That is incorrect, Bacchus have been making Honduran mahogany guitars for at least 3 years that i know of and it is also an option on their LP's, probably for day 1. Anyway its all the same company Deviser makes them all.
15+ year old Bacchus don't exist though, do they? When did they start making Les Paul copies?
My BLS-95 is from 1995, so yes they were made 15 years ago.
Funny i have already said this before and was flamed.... :wink: It is true though, unless you actually know someone who works there....

Mick
[/quote]

Sorry, should have said that Bacchus Vintage Series Lesters rarely came with fancy woods.

Also, I was right, 15 plus year old Bacchus don't exist, just 15 year old ones lol. :P

I'd love to know someone that worked for Bacchus, might get a guided tour one day... and wouldn't that be awesome. :D

JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:52 am

leadguitar_323 wrote:My BLS-95 is from 1995, so yes they were made 15 years ago.
(and you'd need a Japanese person to do the intermediary role or you'd be waiting months for replies ).
Funny i have already said this before and was flamed.... :wink: It is true though, unless you actually know someone who works there....

Mick
[/quote]

Yeah, it was only after I'd seen that you said it, that I thought I'd add my experience as well - one reply (that didn't entirely answer my questions) after 4 emails including one translated one. I'm not having a go because I know there's a lot of reasons for the lack of communication and it comes from both sides (and is mostly unintentional).

What tells you that your BLS is from 95, if you don't mind telling us, so we can get better at dating these guitars (maybe eventually)?
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:55 am

youami wrote:I'd love to know someone that worked for Bacchus, might get a guided tour one day... and wouldn't that be awesome. :D
Hell yes! Maybe if I buy a load more guitars from the Bacchus dealer here in Melbourne I might be able to convince them them to let me come next time they go to the factory! :lol:
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

Bacchus
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Post by Bacchus » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:08 am

Hell yes! Maybe if I buy a load more guitars from the Bacchus dealer here in Melbourne I might be able to convince them them to let me come next time they go to the factory!
Well you could give it a try! :D In the meantime do a virtual tour here http://www.japanvintageguitars.com/Bacc ... ctory.html. I have uploaded our latest factory pics.
(and you'd need a Japanese person to do the intermediary role or you'd be waiting months for replies ).
We are always happy to answer any Bacchus related questions.

rico_rox
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Post by rico_rox » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:05 am

interesting stuff.

does anybody know about the BFV 58 history?
of course the real mij beauties :D

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