Tokai 335

james · Jan 30, 2002

Hi all,

I'm a UK Tokai fan who's just joined the registry.

Just picked up a nice old Tokai 335 copy. The model number on the Gibson-style orange label is ES100J. It looks exactly like the TES100s in the early 80s catalogue on the Tokai Registry, except that it doesn't have the crown inlay on the headstock. The guy I got it from reckons its about an '83. Any info / ideas?

James

Skybone · Jan 30, 2002

Hi James,
If it says ES100J on the label then my guess is that its a new model.
Check the 2000 / 2001 Tokai Catalogue pictures on the Tokai Registry page, hopefully they'll give you some more info to go on.
The other thing to go off is the first 2 digits of the serial number, if its a modern one, the numbers'll be the year, i.e. 01xxxxx for a 2001 model.

http://www.tokairegistry.com

http://www.tokai-guitars.co.uk - UK Importer's website

Anonymous · Jan 31, 2002

james · Feb 1, 2002

Its definitly not a new one. The serial number begins '10XXXXX', there is no crown inlay on the headstock and the trussrod cover is the Gibson bell shape not flat bottomed like the new ones. Also no sunbursting on the neck like the new ones. Besides, the wear shows its been around for a while, as does the original case.

Yes Barry, I did get it from the Loot advert. Lee, who I bought it from, was kind enough to hold it for me until I could get over there to buy it, so sorry about that. He also showed me his photo collection of guitars he has owned, which would compare favourably with any vintage dealer's stock list (e.g real 59 Les Pauls!) and included numerous Tokais!

Peter Mac · Feb 1, 2002

Hi james,
Your ES100J was probably made in 1981. The ES100 was offered in 2 versions (R or J)until 1983 when a single version was made.
The start of the serial number, bell truss-rod cover and lack of headstock crown put it at around 1981. The ES had 3 types of headstock inlay - flower, crown or none - and 3 differnt models : ES100, ES150 and ES200.
All the info i have for it (specs,etc) are in Japanese though so until I can get it translated, all i can say is I have pictures of the guitar from 1982 when the truss-rod cover was altered from bell to diamond.
It was worth 100,000yen (115,000 with case)in 1981 so do your conversions, allow for inflation and see if you got a bargain

regards
Peter Mac

james · Feb 18, 2002

Many thanks for the info Peter. It seems to correspond with what the seller thought.

Just one query: the trussrod cover on my 335 is not exactly the same bell shape as a Gibson - its the same at the top but is slightly more pointed at the bottom. I'd still say it was more bell shaped than anyting else but could it be what you refer to as a diamond? Sorry I haven't got any photos of it at the moment.

Cheers

James

Peter Mac · Feb 19, 2002

Hi james
The diamond truss-rod is the one shown on Page 6 of the SRV catalog on the LesPa...errr Love Rocks.
Most of the late 90's guitars seem to have a "bullet" style truss rod. Pre-1980 seem to have used the actual Gibson "bell" truss-rod covers.
I hope this helps. I can send a copy of the old catalog page showing the ES100J to your email address if you want
regards
Peter

james · Feb 20, 2002

Hi Peter.
I checked that out and its the same as the one on my ES100J. With the serial number on mine starting with a 1 perhaps this suggests that the shape changed at the end of 1981?
Incidently, I was playing the guitar last night and noticed in a certain light you can see what appears to be a very feint impression from a sticker on the back of the headstock, just below the stamped serial number. Its a small oval with the number 100 on it. Was this a standard model/price sticker on all Tokais? Oh, and do you know what the J in the model number stands for?
Anyway, thanks again, and please do send me the photo - my address is:
[email protected]
Cheers
James

Anonymous · Feb 20, 2002

Peter Mac · Feb 21, 2002

hi james,
That sticker was used to distinguish models from each other - ST50 to ST60; LS50 to LS80; ES100 to ES150; etc, etc. All new Tokais had these stickers on them for the sake of price.
The diamond cover was used from around 1980-onwards and by the serial number I would place the guitar at 1981. I do not know what the "J" stood for but I will figure it out .. if Ned doesn't beat me to it. I will send the page to your email address.
regards
Peter

james · Feb 22, 2002

Hi Peter,
Thanks for the picture - its great! Frustrating to have all that spec info in Japanese though! So 'J' is for Jazz and 'R' for Rock. They certainly don't look any different so I guess it must be the pickups.
The sunbursting on mine is much more yellow based than the one in the picture too.
I remembered last night that when I bought my guitar the seller gave me a couple of photos of others that he owned. I dug them out and they're both ES100Js (you can see the labels, but can't make out the serials), one blonde the other sunburst. They both have the flower inlay as in the catlog, but the blonde has a proper bell trussrod cover, so the model must have been around pre 1980.
Cheers
James

Peter Mac · Feb 28, 2002

hi james
Glad you liked the picture...i've owned these catalogs for 18 years now and still can't read Japanese.
The "J" would stand for Jazz and the pickups seem the most likely change as anything else would have altered the price. You definately have an excellent buy. Will you change your last name to Carlton?
by the way, Gibson "bell" truss-rod covers fit perfectly on Tokai headstocks, after all, Tokai did make accessories for Gibson at around this time - don't tell anyone.
regards
Peter

james · Feb 28, 2002

Hi Peter
I think I have an old vinyl copy of the first Larry Carlton album stored away at my parents house, so I'll have to try and dig it out! Whether the Tokai is just a jazz machine or capable of rocking too (more of an early Clapton fan, so I hope so!) I don't know yet, as my amp is in storage too. I played it through a clean amp when I bought it and it sounded great so we shall have to see. I'll let you know. I haven't played any vintage 335s but it certainly sounds and plays better than the new 335s I've tried.
Thats interesting about the Gibson connection by the way - if I stumble across a 'bell' cover I'll try it out.
Just need a Love Rock now to complete the Tokai LP/Strat/Tele/335 set. Ah but then theres the SG - gotta have one of those for the Cream sound, oh and the V for those Albert King moments and.......

Anonymous · Feb 28, 2002

james · Mar 1, 2002

Just checked - they do indeed. They're not spot on though (probably a Gibson copyright). I think I'll keep it stock. It does have a replacement nut (real bone I think) but the original was in the case.

Peter Mac · Mar 1, 2002

Hi Barry and James,

I am wondering if it's possible for you 2 to do a comparison between the ES100J and Barrys 1962 block-neck. The original and the replica.
I would be very interested (as I am sure many others would be too) to get a real "pro-&-con" debate from you.
Hey, any excuse for a jam, right.

Peter

Anonymous · Mar 1, 2002

james · Mar 2, 2002

Yeah, it would be interesting to compare them. Don't worry Barry, I don't think for a minute that the ES100J will be better, but I wonder how close (if at all) it would be? I'm up for it if you are. I'm living in Balham at the moment. Where in London are you?

Another question for Peter: I assume that the case I got with the guitar is original, as its a perfect fit, looks old enough and has 'Made in Japan' on the hinges, but it doesn't have Tokai on it anywhere. I've seen some pictures of old Tokai cases that have that little 'Tokai Gakki' plate on them, but did they all have that? My case is black, with a dark blue lining.

James

Anonymous · Mar 2, 2002

Peter Mac · Mar 2, 2002

Hi james
The case sounds like the original, color, etc is correct. That little plate may not have put on until 1982 but they were not the strogest fit and it may have been removed over time.
We have ascertained yours is a 1981 so maybe it didn't have one. If it did, it was placed in front of the catch before the handle so see if there are any marks there.
Good luck with the jam, play "white room" for me, OK.
regards
Peter

PS : When I bought my Tokai strat, I had the luxury to be able to go through 450 different ones to find the best possible one for my hands. The ST-80 i chose was sooooo Claptonish, it was scary.

Tokai 335

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